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PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   31968 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 17, 2023

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The US is the only major developed country (excl. Eastern Bloc) where living standards have significantly improved since 2008.

I'm gonna need you to substantiate this claim.

Can you name a counter-example? Australia is the largest I can think of, but even there, growth has been slower since 2014 while the US has pulled ahead, so I think I'm still right.

Australia's GDP per capita is significantly higher than in 2008

South Korea's GDP per capita is significantly higher than in 2008

Germany's GDP per capita is significantly higher than in 2008.

Probably there are other examples, but 3 should do.

Germany is 10% since 2008. That isn’t “significantly higher”. Australia looks like it went from 54 to 61 in that time period. Also NOT significantly higher. This is 14 years and sub 1% yearly increase.

Are you genuinely claiming that living standards have substantially improved in Germany since 2008? I'm unsure whether you understand my question, it's not a pure GDP/capita play.

As for Germany:

As of 2021, the average annual wage of Germany was 43,722 euros per year, a growth of over 6,000 Euros when compared with 2000.

So a growth of 6,000 euros since 2000. In the US, which started the century at a similar level, per capita increases in average income sum to approximately 300% of that figure.

Well, I invited you to explain what exactly you were claiming and you didn't really clarify. If gdp per capita isn't what you're talking about, what is? And what do you mean by "substantial"?

If not GDP, what kind of metric do you have in mind?

I’m not sure I’m following the Germany example. Regardless of how it stacks up to our apparent €18,000 growth, it’s still a 16% improvement. Is that not significant?

True, and a good example. I was thinking about whether to add 'Western' but didn't.

I still think it's true that the US economy is visibly doing better than developed European economies, both in statistics and anecdotes.

But 'access to good and services' still is improving in europe - they can buy the latest iphones, the latest cheap TVs, use all of our nice internet services, etc! Most quality of life improvements in america are at least partially exported to Europe because there's profit to be made there too!

I still think it's true that the US economy is visibly doing better than developed European economies, both in statistics and anecdotes.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that more modest claim.

That is the claim. Return to my original comment and you find the words “significantly improved”. The modest increases in QOL in Germany don’t count as significantly improved. Eastern Europe was still ‘developing’ in 2008. South Korea is the only true exception among ‘major’ countries, which I admitted.

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