This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Is This Country Song Racist?
No wait, that's a Key and Peele sketch. Here's the real song that's making headlines:
Jason Aldean - Try That In A Small Town (Official Music Video)
The song is about shooting rioters. One can argue about to what extent shooting rioters is actually a good thing, one can argue about to what extent said rioters are "racialized" as African American, but the song is transparently about shooting rioters. Just what exactly is, "Around here, we take care of our own. You cross that line, it won't take long," supposed to mean? Surely it's a metaphor, not a literal line (like say, some train tracks) right?
Needless to say, the video has been pulled from Country Music Television (whatever that means). Seems more like fake backlash than real resistance to me, but I don't know much about country music. Are these guys a big deal?
Also, my God country music is terrible. It's better than rap, but rap hardly counts as music. I'm glad Red America finally has the balls to stick up for itself, but this is not exactly art that's going to mog the cathedral.
At least there exists good rap; good rap is theoretical possible. The design specifications of rap allow for good.
The essential element of stadium country is that it is vapid garbage for people that hate music. It is mid 2000's R&B level worthless trash.
Here are the things that are good about pop country: You can dance to it.
It's the Mcdonald's of music. Bland, overproduced, overpriced, and super salty all the time.
Wait, hold on, I have more bitching in me! And it's deffo not all sour grapes that my guys never break into the mainstream!
"The popular stuff is bad. It is sterile, there is no feel to it, because it lacks all of the interesting rough edges of actual human artistry. The popular stuff is only popular because most people aren't capable of appreciating the art form, so they want the indications of artistry (aka human creation) sanded away."
This is what I call the I'm calling the indie/hipster take.
I've never agreed with the indie/hipster take on music. I like the pop stuff, and much of the indie/hipster stuff sounds like garbage or at best something in need of more work (aka underproduced).
However, my hobbies are defined by me following the indie/hipster take on writing. I engage in amateur political/culture war writing on this website, and read all the other amateur takes. I read fiction and fantasy stories over at royalroad (and wrote my own story for a while), but the books that get published always feel to edited and sterile to me.
I've also tended to follow the indie/hipster take on video games. I sometimes enjoy the silly bugs. I hate the games that have a progression treadmill calculated down to an exact science. I like the modding scene and sometimes breaking games with the bloated ideas of a dozen different nerds thinking "whoa wouldn't it be cool if this game also had X".
I have the indie/hipster take on some artforms and have the pop/mainstream take on other artforms. But even knowing that and trying to hold the idea in my head, I still can't help but sneer when I meet someone with the opposite take as me on an artform. I find it hard not to gloat at people with the indie/hipster take on music "ha, suck it, no one likes your crappy band's sounds. And if your band ever became good enough for most people to like it, then you would stop liking them!" And I find it hard not to gloat at the pop/mainstream take on video games "you rich idiot, you spend so much money on a glorified slot machine with pretty lights and colors." I have at least learned not to speak these thoughts aloud, instead mumbling some platitudes about 'people can enjoy different things, thats fine'.
I should know that I am both of these people, the indie/hipster geek with an eye and appreciation for the rough edges, and the mindless pop/mainstream follower that likes my art sanded down to the most average and palatable of forms. Coincidences of circumstances have led me to the interests I have, and the interests I lack.
Not sure where I was going with this, but that is part of the fun with amateur writing: The meandering of human thought that any good editor will sand away to a proper form of something like 'idea->example->idea->example->synthesis->conclusion'.
The thing is, I'm not a hipster about the things I really like (excepting coffee.) I like pop rap, pop rock, pop dance, pop edm. I think TacoBell is an incredible restaurant, and so on.
They are also lowest common denominator, but there is still some there there. I even like some pop country!
I feel like stadium country is an exception, and I think the reason why is the cynicism of it. Not to say other genera don't have that too, but country just has the most.
Lot's of country dudes are spectacular artists with really excellent American folk or bluegrass albums/songs they do on the side for artistic fulfilment, then they go out on stage in the big tent and play slop for the hogs.
Imagine a walking into a Michelin star restaurant and the waiter takes the menu out of your hands and says "I think sir would prefer the chicken nuggies". Nuggies are fucking great, nobody hates nuggies. But the context!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link