Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 207
- 2
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Just adding your weekly reminder that the Motte remains the brightest and best hope for open discourse on the internet. Be proud and relieved you are a Mottizen - we have made it to the shining City on the Hill, the one place online where truth and free speech are protected.
I'm doing all this grandstanding because I'm flabbergasted that right now Tildes, one of the other 'reddit-alternatives' that claims to stand for open and intellectual discourse, is actively and unapologetically censoring anything to do with the UAP hearings.
Many of the users there are rightly pointing out that it's insane that the moderators would block discussion about a literal Congressional hearing... but this is the doublethink that we Mottizens are up against:
Again, luckily there is some actual pushback on the site itself. But please, my fellow Mottizens, let this open display of intolerance remind you to keep your guard strong. Keep your eyes focused directly on the goal, and remember that if we let ourselves be distracted by our petty differences, the Motte may well become the same censored cesspool as the rest of the internet.
Be strong my brothers and sisters, and never forget the incredible and unique nature of this Forum that we have built. Don't take the Motte for granted, and be swift and sure when defending it.
Veritas omnia vincet.
I don’t agree with censorship, but the dude isn’t exactly wrong in what he’s saying either. The hearings are based on nothing solid, nothing but one person, and that person essentially overhearing rumors of weird programs in the hall. There isn’t anything here to see, in my view, and quite a lot that hinges on things we have no evidence of. In fact, the people who should be interested, the physics professors, the astrophysicists, the xenobiologists and just plain ordinary biologists are not interested at all.
It is a conspiracy theory, and one based in fantasies that almost everyone here desperately wants to be true. We want the warp drive, we want Spock or Worf Or Chewy. But there isn’t real evidence. We haven’t found anything that points to life. It could well be out there, there could be an alien out there looking in our direction, but without proof, without evidence of a ship, a space station, or some planet out there with its own version of starlink, it’s just fantasy. These UAPs are angels for people who are not religious.
I’ll strongly agree that we should allow rigorous debate. I don’t want censorship here or anywhere else, it bad for truth detection. But I’m finding myself rather surprised at the rate with which nerds are willing to toss rationality over the side of the boat the minute they want something to be true badly enough. People (not all of them here) willing to hand wave known physics, or the complete lack of evidence in deep space, or the complete disinterest of subject matter expert’s because they just want it to be true.
But that's precisely why they should be discussed and debunked, if possible. If you shut everything down, then what is left is "The Congressional hearing is a serious investigation and they are taking this seriously so that means it is really true aliens exist and we have evidence they visited Earth" going around credulous people. Isn't that way more harmful?
I said we should allow debate. I would very much prefer that there’s a factual debate. My thinking is that when talking about something like that, it should require that the people debating should have to cite sources. It’s not that complicated, things where a conspiracy is claimed need to cite reputable sources to back up the claim. That’s the entire thing— I do take the idea of aliens fairly seriously, which is why I’m being very careful to not make claims that are not backed up by either known physics or physical evidence. That, to me, is part of taking it seriously. I feel the same way about the claims of election fraud in 2020 — it’s a very important debate which is why you have to look at the evidence and not just go with what you want.
The reason I think for contentious and serious topics a rule like “cite your sources” would be a good idea (and again I’m not for banning any topic, or any argument) is that it keeps the debate to facts and not opinions or supposition or cherry-picking of sources. If not, the debate itself becomes a mess of claims many of which will turn out to be dubious or fraudulent or opinion pieces.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link