This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I meant Jews are regarded differently than the other groups you mentioned, I am aware that is the case across denominations, particularly among evangelicals.
There is a special carve-out, absolutely. And it was engineered by the Elders of Zion, AKA the Prophets of the bible who declared Jews to be God's Chosen people and then convinced the Gentiles to accept that proposition as part of their own religion. So it leads to these contradictions like, Jews knowingly reject Christ but they still go to heaven, obviously Christianity is going to digest that contradiction just fine because the religion itself is basically worshipping the Jews and their tribal god.
Your understanding of the history of Judaism and Christianity seems pretty lacking. Christianity began as a Jewish splinter sect. The "Elders of Zion" didn't "convince" the Gentiles to accept anything; the beliefs of early Christians were obviously informed by the fact that initially they considered themselves Jews who followed the promised Messiah. Since then, the situation has become vastly more complicated, with two thousand years of history and schisms and factions and subfactions, some still holding up Jews as "God's Chosen People" and some condemning them to hell for being Christ-killers.
I know you try to fit your ZOG narrative to everything, but it does not actually fit everything.
Saint Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, was a Jewish Pharisee. And of course Jesus was a Jewish teacher. So according to the Church's own history, the messiah and apostle to the gentiles were indeed "Elders of Zion": a Pharisee and the King of the Jews. They did convince the gentiles to accept the proposition that the only real god is the Jewish tribal god Yahweh, and that all who reject him suffer eternal torture, and that he chose Jews as his Chosen People and made his son born of the Jews.
"Christianity is a Jew religion" is not a new take, I know it's very popular with the neo-Nazi movement, and you're still ignoring the 2000 years of history since. Note that I am neither Christian nor Jewish; I'm just pointing out that you're crafting a narrative to fit your ideology about Da Joos and their sneaky cultural infiltration that ignores a lot of history and what is actually believed by Christians and Jews today.
It's your own ideology that is motivating you to downplay the implications of Gentiles accepting the Torah as divine Truth. You maybe watch something like this on the Glenn Beck show and think "how quaint, that's religion for you!" but your ideology is the one that blinds you to the bigger picture. You accuse me of pathological obsession with Jews but then refuse to acknowledge the actual worship of Jews and Israel by Christians for what it is.
Really? What is my ideology (besides "Nah, I don't think Jews are lizard people")?
Nothing you are saying is unfamiliar or new, I am well-versed in the neo-Nazi "Christians are just simping for Da Joos" rhetoric. Christians aren't actually a monolithic group any more than Jews are.
Take your pick, if there's one thing that every mainstream ideology has in common, from Marxism to libertarianism and everything in between, it's that you do not and cannot engage in anthropological analysis that puts Jews under the microscope. To do so makes you mentally deranged at best and evil at worst. That's no coincidence either.
So, for example, if you engage in a sober-headed analysis relating the Jewish origins of Christianity to modern-day relations, in any other terms than endorsement of a "Judeo-Christian" commonality or denunciation of Christian anti-Semitism, then you are going to be hated by absolutely every ideology that is anywhere near the mainstream. The only two groups of people who do that are radical Rightists or radical Jews, although the former engage in that sort of analysis as a criticism and the latter through a triumphalist lens.
It is said that the Aztecs believed the conquistadors were representatives of Quetzalcoatl, which is a claim that often promotes pushback especially today:
Those are pretty strong terms, but nobody will bat an eye when a Jew goes on Glenn Beck's show and says "God says [the Jews] are my witnesses on Earth, the promise, you're my witnesses on Earth. Well destroy the witnesses then you don't have God" and nobody bats an eye because his audience believes that.
I find it believable that the Aztecs believed the Spaniards to be envoys of Quetzalcoatl. We know for a fact that billions of Gentiles affirm the Jewish covenant, that Jews are/were the singularly chosen envoys of the one true God, and that can't be chalked up to White Supremacy... It's not only the Far Right that recognizes this, but it is only the far Right that recognizes this fact and provides a measure of criticism for its implications.
This is all to say, you don't have to be ideologically motivated to relate Christianity to the conversion of billions of gentiles to worship the God of Israel, you have to be ideologically motivated to claim there's no "there" there.
Sure I can. The problem is, I've read all your theories about why Jews are "special" and should be treated as uniquely inimical. I can do anthropological analysis as well as you can. I find your analyses unconvincing. It's not because I have some mental block put there by Da Joos. It's because I think you're wrong and illogical, and your entire ideology is
JewishChinese robbers all the way down.Why should anyone bat an eye, any more than they bat an eye at "Without Jesus, there is no hope"? Sure, I listen to that speech and roll my eyes. "Religion, how quaint," as you put it. And it's no different than any other zealot spouting off about his religious beliefs.
No, that's not how it works. You are the one claiming there is a "there" (hostile Jews waging tribal warfare against everyone else since the beginning of time) there. That's your ideology. You're just engaging in your own form of religious weakmanning, like the Christian who claims obviously we all know God is real and Jesus is Lord, and anyone who claims otherwise is just lying to himself and letting Satan whisper lies in his ear. You need to prove your case, not insist it's just obviously obvious and it's only Jew-ideologies keeping us from seeing it.
I have proven my case by showing that Christians worship the Jewish god of Israel and believe in the Jewish covenant - that God chose them among all the nations, and those Christians were converted by a Jewish messiah and a Jewish apostle, and believe in the Jewish bible and accept the Hebrew histories as divine truth... That is all insurmountable evidence that Christianity is indeed a Jewish religion, a fact which you denied, and you have presented no evidence for your claim that it is something other than a Jewish religion fundamentally, which worships a Jew as an actual god in a religious form that was established by a Jew who was an apostle to the Gentiles. You have just taken the "point and sputter" approach by talking about Elders of Zion and ZOG without presenting evidence that Christianity is not a Jewish religion.
It is fundamentally different, the content of these beliefs actually matters, it's not just all the same. It actually impacts the way we view the world and engage with others around us. It impacts how we view ourselves and how we view and treat others.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link