site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 28, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

It's getting unavoidable - the quality of news and novel information obtained from time here is crashing. I used to hear things here first - now I usually don't hear them here at all.

Recently I brought up Rich Men North of Richmond - only because no one else did - and pretty well everyone shit on it for one reason or another. 'Should've sang about this instead,' 'this song is better,' 'why'd he bring this up' etc. But it's the biggest song on the planet. You were all wrong and I was right to bring it to your attention. How can we raise the quality of posts back to be worthy of attention, so readers are informed about developments in the culture war?

  • -22

Recently I brought up Rich Men North of Richmond - only because no one else did - and pretty well everyone shit on it for one reason or another.

Everyone shits on it because it is shitty. It is not working clas song, it is loser song.

Working class songs sound like this.

Not "Ouch, our lives suck so much", but "Our lives suck, we must organize and fight"

You do not have to be "leftist" or "communist" to see it, hard core Tsarist like Mystery Grove with zero sympathy for the left tells it even harder.

Gingergate

My issue isn’t with the singer, but rather the song and the response to it. Personal music tastes aside, I cannot think of a worse message for conservatives to rally around than “My life sucks. The world has passed me by.” It’s understandable why this song resonates with so many people. These are not problems that he’s just making up. Everything really is getting worse. However, the song is just a lament. We don’t need any more laments.

The Yellowstoning of Oliver Anthony

I just don’t see the point of relishing in how bad things are today. In fact, dwelling on this situation, without anything more, lulls people into inaction. You see a similar phenomenon with burgeoning conspiracy culture on the Right. Even when the conspiracies are true, it doesn’t spur people to greater action. Instead, it turns into a joke. “Epstein didn’t kill himself” is a meme, not something that any elected official, even in the deepest Red state, is substantively engaging with.

...

But it's the biggest song on the planet.

For now, next month something else would be the biggest hit and this whole thing will be forgotten.

Remember another working class hero, Joe the Plumber? He had his five minutes of fame and then nothing. He just died and few people noticed.

edit: link fixed

Okay, boo hoo, i was wrong, everything was shit. My bad. on me. It's still bigger than the indians landing on the moon. Even the fact you're bitching about it now is part of it being the biggest story in the world. It should have been brought up here by someone else than me going 'uh guys maybe take a look' and you being so dismissive of it is part of the story

  • -16

If you want to count everything as part of the story, you're free to. Doesn't make it an important story. Certainly not "bigger than the Indians landing on the moon".

The cultural impact in the West of indians landing on the moon is as near to zero as makes no difference. Especially compared to this song