This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Would the comment:
have been low effort boo outgroup?
I'm asking because Barron20204's comment seems less 'boo outgroup' and more pithy and accurate acknowledgement of the established fact that positions of the highest levels are now routinely promised by outgroup to black women.
Not a mod, but lets try to unpack a bit - Don't fear - when you start it is obliviously that at least some sarcasm will follow, more probably snark up to culture warring. Not that first two are against the rules, but are discouraged.
Second sentence - statement of truth - there is link (although a quote to give context would have been more appropriate) and it is fine.
Third sentence - here is where I think the OP got in trouble - statement of fact, that will be inflammatory to a sizeable chunk of the people here. Now if you start fires you better bring facts or quotations. Those are missing. There is not even attempt to soften it as expressing it as an opinion or at least saying it is a trend. I don't think that this is established fact when half the people think otherwise. It is established fact in an echo chamber.
It's up to the reader whether "Don't fear' is sarcastic and snarky or facetious and lighthearted. I read it as an attempt to soften what is quite obviously a terrible development: that our political spoils system has seemingly transitioned to one openly based on racial and gender politics. It's not new by any means. But there was something comforting about the decorum of it not being blatant.
And whether or not OP started their third sentence off with 'seemingly' or 'perhaps' or didn't doesn't change the established fact that democrats are now routinely promising to offer positions exclusively to black women
To me it seems that the politically promoted black women are qualified enough at least on paper for the post that they are taking. Feel free to pitch in. They are not taking AAVE speaking black grandmas from the poor working class areas. Although with their stereotypical no bullshit attitude and desire to smack people they may be a welcome addition to the political scene.
Although not as qualified, as you said, on paper, our hypothetical Ebonics Granny from the hood has real life experience and the resultant common sense that would bring a refreshing perspective to either the VP or SCOTUS that Kamala and Ketanji just...don't. And I'd almost-not-joking trust her more as president too, because she might be more likely than Kamala to be aware of just how much she didn't know. All I'm saying is let's hear her out
I agree with this point. If the goal of appointing these people is to enfranchise Black people whose opinions are marginalized in society then I don't see how putting someone who does not at all have the experience of those groups into power accomplishes this. It's like the recent immigrants taking the affirmative action spots in ivy leagues. The disconnect between the purported motivation and the outcome achieved along with the total lack of interest in aligning these things betrays that the motivation is not sincere.
What is the motivation, then? These people don’t literally believe blacks are magic, and affirmative action doesn’t on average do anything except make everything very slightly worse(and piss people off).
Not to be snarky, but are we sure of this?
There does seem to be a lot of magical thinking applied to not just black people but “diversity”. It’s taken for granted that without black people (slavery), America wouldn’t even exist. (“Slaves built America.”) Just look at the purported benefits of diversity. Without diversity we wouldn’t have creativity, innovation, social cohesion, social justice, or equity.
It’s hard to square these claims with reality in any realistic, non-magical way.
When I say Bob built my house, I am not saying , I wouldn't have a house otherwise, because I would have employed Fred or Charlie to build it instead. But it wouldn't be exactly the same house.
And if you ask who did build "this" house, Bob is the factually correct answer even if some other house would be here otherwise.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link