site banner
PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   2430 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for September 29, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Tired:

Relying on its prior opinion in Central Florida Nuclear Freeze Campaign v. Walsh, 774 F. 2d 1515, 1521 (CA11 1985), cert. denied, 475 U. S. 1120 (1986), the Court of Appeals held:

Wired:

Relying on its prior opinion in Central Florida Nuclear Freeze Campaign v. Walsh (F. ser. 2 vol. 774 op. 1515 (CA11, 1985, cert. denied (US vol. 475 order 1120 (1986)))) p. 1521, the Court of Appeals held:

Fired:

Relying on its prior opinion in *Central Florida Nuclear Freeze Campaign v. Walsh [citation omitted],

Hm. The latter uses 68 characters (without spaces) to convey the same information that the former uses 56 characters to convey. I think I prefer tired to wired.

The second format is big-endian rather than middle-endian, though. I hope you aren't one of those people who prefer 9/30/2023 to 2023-09-30.

Per your link, big-endian cites put the most important info first. If that is the case, why does the page cite come at the end, given that that is of vastly more importance than the fact that cert was denied, which is essentially legally meaningless. It adds nothing to the weight of the case as authority. And, the point of a citation is to aid the reader in finding the cited material; the fact that cert was denied does not do that.

PS: I don't understand "order 1120." 1120 is the page of the reporter than the order denying cert is published on, isn't it?

Think of it as a folder hierarchy on a computer. The "most important" item always is the folder at the top of the hierarchy—in this case, the reporter.

F[ederal Reporter]

Ser[ies] 2

Vol[ume] 774

Order [starting on page] 1515

The point of putting the informational stuff in parentheses rather than in parenthetical commas is to make it easier for the reader to skip over it if he wants to. I'm not a lawyer, but when I read court opinions I find the parenthetical commas rather confusing and annoying.

Central Florida Nuclear Freeze Campaign v. Walsh ([also known as] F[ederal Reporter] ser[ies] 2 vol[ume] 774 op[inion starting on page] 1515 ([further information: Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit], [year] 1985, cert[iorari] denied ([also known as] US [Reports] vol[ume] 475 order [starting on page] 1120 ([year] 1986)))) p[age] 1521

can be simplified to

Central Florida Nuclear Freeze Campaign v. Walsh ([also known as] F[ederal Reporter] ser[ies] 2 vol[ume] 774 op[inion starting on page] 1515) p[age] 1521

or

Central Florida Nuclear Freeze Campaign v. Walsh p[age] 1521

Of course, I am used to the standard form, so it is hard for me to say how others view it. But note that in legal citation, the most important material is often placed in parentheses. So it is usually a "read this" signal rather than a "it's ok to skip this" signal.

Is it the brackets? I like nested brackets too!

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats