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PaperclipPerfector  8mo ago (text post)   2792 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for September 29, 2023

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Another thought: don't the European soccer leagues have different tiers, and winning one tier graduates you to a higher tier next year. So instead of just one champion, there are three champions each year. Two lesser champions of course, but still something.

I wish when the second tier conferences in the NCAA were making cases that they should get playoff invites, NCAA football had adopted promotion relegation. It makes bowl games special (they become the promotion relegation games, gives all bowl conference teams a path to a championship, and makes the national championship game more meaningful because the winner won the top conference by beating half the country's top teams not creampuffs from a weak division.

Pro/Rel also has the advantage that small teams can take pride simply in staying up in the top league. Sure, Luton Town fans probably never get to stunt on Man City fans, but they get to stunt on Leeds Fans. Even bottom tier epl teams have someone to look down on.

Pro/Rel wouldn't work in USA pro sports for geographic reasons. Freddie complains that kids in Indiana will have no reason to root for the Pacers, the vast majority of Americans would have no local team under Pro/Rel. Too much population too far from any real city. It works in England and France, where even the most remote areas are closer than one end of Texas to the other.

Pro/Rel wouldn't work in USA pro sports for geographic reasons. Freddie complains that kids in Indiana will have no reason to root for the Pacers, the vast majority of Americans would have no local team under Pro/Rel. Too much population too far from any real city. It works in England and France, where even the most remote areas are closer than one end of Texas to the other.

I don't entirely get this. At least here in germany, it's pretty common to care about second/third or local leagues if the favorite team isn't good enough for the first, and it's also pretty common for people to have a favorite team that doesn't really make much sense geographically(I grew up in northwest germany and rooting for Bayern München wasn't unusual there). Pro/Rel generally also allows for a very smooth transition between amateur and professional teams, which is a good way to generate interest in the "middle" leagues.

That's more or less exactly the American system: an area the size of Germany (by land area) typically has 2-4 professional team market areas. Germany is tiny by comparison to the USA. Hernigsdorf to Munich is 8 hours by car, Amarillo to Dallas is 6. Distances at which a serious fan could easily make a once a year trip, and would certainly go at some point in their lives. Pro Rel in America could easily create a scenario where half the population is traveling more like Hernigsdorf to London to see a real pro team.

What do you mean, "a real pro team"? Why are only premier/major league teams "real"?

NFL has 32 teams, so let's say we add FL1, a minor league with 32 more teams. Slowly but surely, these 64 teams end up in the 48 biggest metro areas.

These metro areas alone contain roughly two thirds of the US population. That's just people who can hop in a car and go see a game, a commute instead of a dedicated trip.

The only states that are too remote to have something that resembles their "home" team are:

  • Alaska
  • Idaho
  • Montana
  • Wyoming
  • N. Dakota
  • S. Dakota
  • Nebraska
  • Iowa
  • W. Virginia
  • Maine
  • and upstate New York, because they always get shafted by the NYC that will probably have like three or four teams alone.

You know what this list looks like? The list of states without NFL teams. Hell, even if you ignore the FL1 idea altogether and crowd the NFL into the biggest 24 cities, the list doesn't change that much:

  • Buffalo Bills move to NYC as the third team

  • Baltimore Ravens move to DC as the second team

  • Green Bay Packers move to Chicago as the second team

  • Cincinnati Bengals and Indianapolis Colts have to merge to survive

  • Jacksonville Jaguars move to Orlando

  • Pittsburgh Steelers move to Philadelphia as the second team

  • Kansas City Chiefs move to St Louis

  • Las Vegas Raiders move to SLC

  • New Orleans Saints are fucked

  • Tennessee Titans are fucked

Just two states will actually lose their teams completely in this situation.

the vast majority of Americans would have no local team under Pro/Rel

Doesn't every American high school have a team? How is that not enough for density? Kids in Indiana can root for their local amateur team that competes in the Indiana championship. Or for a local professional team that competes in the Midwestern championship. Or for whatever midwestern team that is in the minor or major league. Or really any team that's in the major league. Why should they root for the local team?

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