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Yes, another top level comment about The Origins of Woke from me, in the same thread on the same week. But this is about something else. I had an epiphany while reading the book.
I've wondered for many years why Marxism is more socially acceptable than racism when it's responsible for even more deaths than the Holocaust. It's because companies are (de facto) legally required to fire racists, but they're not required to fire Marxists. In fact, firing a Marxist for merely being Marxist would be illegal in California.
California has a state law against firing people for their political beliefs, but it didn't protect James Damore, who was fired in compliance with the law against creating a hostile work environment for protected groups.
It all adds up.
I believe it's because Marxism better comports with Christian egalitarianism.
Yep this hits the nail on the head, in my view. Christians will tend to argue otherwise but Jesus did very explicitly argue for a sort of Saturnalian reversal quite often. The last shall be first, and all that.
I'm sure there are reasons why Christianity is more nuanced than Marxism, but they do have similar themes. Capitalists could easily be this wicked and corrupt generation.
Thank you for this post with a completely alien perspective of my faith. It shows me where the real battle for understanding is.
I have worked for a Christian businessman before, and were it not for that job, I would have found less professional success in my life, and less freedom from my emotional turmoil. It was the job with the healthiest emotional environment I’ve ever been in. Yet his small business, his petit bourgeois success, is exactly the kind that Marxists would make impossible.
C.S. Lewis would have said that the Saturnalian reversal was an echo in pagan thought of the later true divine reversal in which the Son of God washed his followers’ dusty feet and, instead of taking over the world and ruling it, willingly dying for the sins of all. Satan the rebel wanted God brought low, but not like this.
The purported words of Jesus seem pretty unambiguous to me. I don't see how the following can be interpreted to mean anything other than that a "Christian businessman" is like a "communist businessman". You can be a Christian or communist businessman, but only with the understanding that this is a temporary state that is inferior to the ideal one and if you were more virtuous, you would not be a businessman.
Just got back from bible study where we happened to discuss a similar story that makes it obvious Jesus here was yanking the guys chain and having a laugh with his buddies. "All these I have kept" is obviously not true - the dude tried to tell God to His face that he had never told a fib or disrespected his parents. So Jesus tells him "well if you're so perfect, drop everything and come along with me." Jesus is calling his bluff.
"Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle" is a joke. It's funny. Jesus is pretty clearly saying "rich people tend to be so consumed by their wealth they have no room in their heart for Me."
One of the things we discussed in fellowship this morning was the story of Zacchaeus (https://www.bibleref.com/Luke/19/Luke-chapter-19.html), a rich tax collector who told Jesus he had given away half his possessions to the poor. Jesus told him he was good to go, clear for takeoff. So obviously the camel thing was a joke.
Do you understand how, to somebody who is not a Christian and who is not invested in believing in the most favorable possible interpretation of your faith, this just seems like extra-special pleading? Surely there are a great many things which Jesus is recorded has having said which you consider deeply profound insights and statements of Jesus’ - and, by extension, God’s - true beliefs. Why, then, should we take seriously your contention that this particular statement - one which just happens to present an extremely inconvenient dilemma for your other non-religious philosophical and material commitments if taken literally and seriously - is just obviously a joke and Jesus didn’t really mean it, unlike all the other stuff he said that you agree with?
I don't think the response above is a particularly good way of phrasing things, but a verse was presented and a claim was made that the verse is a general rule. He provided another verse that contradicts that supposed general rule. Nothing in the text of the first verse actually establishes a general rule, the existence of such a rule is an inference, and the second verse shows that the inference is false.
Maybe the text is completely contradictory, and it's all gobbledegook. Maybe it's actually a bit more complex, and grabbing single sentences out of a massive text loses important context. What it isn't, is true that Jesus taught, or Christians believe, that material wealth precludes salvation. That is a misconception fostered by people looking for easy dismissals.
For the record, I do not think Jesus is joking in that passage. What that guy actually needed to do was give everything away and follow Jesus. That was the thing he was not willing to do.
I love my wife and would do anything for her. I do not actually have to do everything for her, but I am willing to do whatever she needs me to do. That commitment is made without limit, and yet I can continue to live a life that is, in many ways, still mine, so long as it does not conflict with my commitment to her. What I cannot do is to put some thing before that commitment, choose some other thing over her should a conflict arise. Zaccheus' money doesn't come between him and God; he voluntarily pays back those he's wronged and gives to the poor because he wants to do the right thing, and Jesus approves. The Rich Young Ruler wants to be seen as righteous, but his money is more precious to him than actually being righteous, and that's why he goes away. There's numerous other examples throughout the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament that drive the point home, but this would require actually reading the thing or listening seriously to someone who has, and who has time for that, when one can mine pull-quotes out of context for a political agenda?
I actually agree with you here. I think making it a joke, is probably tonally not in line with how Jesus speaks. But likewise it isn't a global stricture. Some rich people can get into Heaven, some can't. I think that is the most consistent reading.
But some Christians apparently believe He was joking, and some believe He meant that all rich people were barred from Heaven. Can people with all three interpretations all still be Christian? Probably I'd imagine.
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