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PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   2320 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for October 8, 2023

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A thought and question I've had bouncing around in my head that I don't expect a real answer to, or even a coherent framing, since its possible there are a few false premises at work here.

Is it possible that one side effect of the rise of Onlyfans/digital prostitution is that (many) men are noticing that (many) women know precisely what men want in a sexual partner and are willing to provide it... but only outside the context of a committed relationship.

Simply put, Onlyfans creates an extremely liquid marketplace for attractive women to produce smut content for a large audience. Content producers want to optimize to capture as many customers as possible. Something like 87% of the customers/users on OF are men. So competitive forces drive the (mostly females) creators to figure out exactly what men's sexual preferences are and provide content tailored to those preferences and produce it en masse.

So by sheer economic necessity, these women are demonstrating that they are willing to engage with men's deepest sexual desires in order to make a buck.

Imagine being a 20-something male in the current environment, being aware of the fact that you can go on OF and for the price of a cheeseburger find women who will perform almost any male sexual fantasy you could imagine. Then going on the dating market to find a woman who might be willing to indulge in fantasies with him (assume he's seeking an otherwise healthy, committed relationship).

If he goes into the dating marketplace and is open about his own personal sexual desires, he can be branded as a pervert or a sex pest because "women don't exist solely to please men" and/or "you can't reduce women to sex objects, even if they sexualize themselves." In some cases, they might just simply express ignorance of men's sexual preferences and act as though expecting sexual gratification from a partner is suspect!

But this would read as extremely bad faith given that, as above, women clearly can figure out what men want if they put in a modicum of effort, and WILL provide it when provided sufficient incentive.

Seems, to me, that seeing the difference between what women are willing to do for money and attention from thousands of onlookers online vs. how they can be unwilling to indulge their own partner's personal desires could lead to a feeling of resentment.

Imagine being a 20-something male in the current environment, being aware of the fact that you can go on OF and for the price of a cheeseburger find women who will perform almost any male sexual fantasy you could imagine.

Well, not for the prize of a cheeseburger and not almost any fantasy by far. Unless you eat gold-plated cheeseburgers, I guess.

But I think you're right in general. OF performers are certainly learning what makes men tick. It's deeply amusing to watch various memes aimed at increasing engagement spread across the thotdom, bloom, wither and die, like pretending to be interested in "older men", average-sized cocks or the recent "what do you call a girl that does ?" aimed at boosting both positive and negative engagement.

I think the biggest discovery so far has been that a lot of men are looking for, uh, for the lack of a better name, transwomen. Not in the literal sense of female-presenting AMABs, but women that, while looking explicitly feminine, are otherwise a lot like men: much hornier than a modal woman, interested in male-coded hobbies, prefer shooting the shit to gossiping and don't make you play "guess the mood".

Honestly, none of this is really new by itself. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession, after all, and the top escorts have always been like that, providing what's now called GFE to senators and businessmen. What's revolutionary is the democratization of this experience. Now, for the price of a fancy cheeseburger, any loser can talk foreign policy with an half-naked attractive woman that is fluffing you for round two watch a half-naked attractive woman play Fortnite while talking how horny she is.

I think the biggest discovery so far has been that a lot of men are looking for, uh, for the lack of a better name, transwomen.

Femboys are probably closer to the mark. If only because fucking one is marginally less shameful than fucking a tranny to most men. But also because many trans throw themselves into liking stereotypically girly things to try and shore up their identities, instead of embracing being a bro like femboys are more likely to do.

I find it pretty funny that nobody else has apparently thought of the actual term, tomboys and have instead fallen into the age old argument of "which form of gay is less gay".

Well, I very deliberately didn't say "tomboys" because tomboys are not explicitly feminine. How do stereotypical sexual fantasies involving tomboys start? She's been the only girl you know that didn't have cooties, wearing stereotypical boyish clothes, cutting her hair short and liking stereotypical boyish activities. Then one summer she suddenly matures into a woman and her friends can no longer play with her because they lose the trail of thought every time they see her new assets that are irresistible despite her lack of effort to promote them.

The modal OF model is sexy and she knows it. She can stream on Twitch, but her hair will be coiffed, her make-up expertly done, her outfit carefully picked to draw attention to her femininity.

How do stereotypical sexual fantasies involving tomboys start? She's been the only girl you know that didn't have cooties, wearing stereotypical boyish clothes, cutting her hair short and liking stereotypical boyish activities. Then one summer she suddenly matures into a woman and her friends can no longer play with her because they lose the trail of thought every time they see her new assets that are irresistible despite her lack of effort to promote them.

I've never heard of this stereotype. Or, tbh, any stereotype about sexual fantasies involving tomboys. I don't really know any other people who are into tomboys, but I am someone who's into tomboys, and that stereotype is the opposite of what I would consider a satisfying sexual fantasy about a tomboy; the reason I'm attracted to a tomboy is that she has those boyish features, like short hair, small breasts (this is a preference I hold for non-tomboys as well), perhaps slightly muscular build, along with engaging in more masculine activities with her, such as sports or video games. I'd find the notion of a girly girl "maturing" into a tomboy-ish woman (though obviously that asset growth only goes one way, so it'd be just a matter of minimal growth rather than reduction) far more sexually appealing than the other way around.

The modal OF model is sexy and she knows it. She can stream on Twitch

Counterpoint: the most popular Vtuber (engaged in a stereotypically male activity: gaming) has a tomboy model. Short hair, wears stereotypical boyish clothes, flat chest, and a voice that's naturally lower on the register than Vtubers that lean harder into a more traditionally feminine appearance. Subscriber count is roughly double (2 million more) than the 2nd most popular English-speaking one (whose model has a significantly more "traditionally" female appearance/voice/mannerisms) who's been at it for the same amount of time.

How do stereotypical sexual fantasies involving tomboys start?

Usually it's on sight, but there's a difference between sexual fantasies for "tomboys that are broad-spectrum attractive" and then there's sexual fantasies for "how tomboys usually look".

because tomboys are not explicitly feminine

Implicitly feminine is still feminine; boyish girls (tomboys) and girlish boys (this is what "femboys" means) are quite different.

Then one summer she suddenly matures into a woman and her friends can no longer play with her because they lose the trail of thought every time they see her new assets that are irresistible despite her lack of effort to promote them.

I believe this "tomboy death" effect filters out traditionally-attractive women, leaving only the women who are unattractive in that pool. "Looks like an overgrown little girl" is sufficiently unattractive for a few reasons, and tomboy activities tend to be more difficult the larger one's chest becomes (and the sorer one will be the day after, increasing with age) anyway, so there's a bunch of cooling effects there.

Counterpoint: the most popular Vtuber (engaged in a stereotypically male activity: gaming) has a tomboy model.

Who, the slightly mentally challenged shark girl?

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(Yes, that's the one. I'm pretty sure she out-earns even the more popular OF models despite never physically appearing on screen, and I assert that the immature/goofy tomboy character she uses is the main reason why. Even the animal she chose to use is associated far more with men anyway and I don't think that was coincidental either.

I guess you could say that most of those things are also highlighting femininity, but importantly, tomboyishness only highlights the parts of femininity that are common to both girls and women and tends to leave out the parts that separate the two.)

I guess we need to hash out the definition of a tomboy, because I've never considered her one. Of course, you're right that she's not flaunting her femininity, but she's not a sex worker either.

If only because fucking one is marginally less shameful than fucking a tranny to most men.

Huh? How? Why? Isn't it gayer to have sex with someone who identifies as a man?

Isn't it gayer to have sex with someone who identifies as a man?

The vast majority of human history says "no, because in that situation, only the bottom is 'gay'". Which makes intuitive sense provided you retain the traditional natural-order understanding that men seek to obtain sexual pleasure rather than being its source (and that men who exclusively prefer the latter job are malfunctioning to some degree; an assertion that is usually true, regardless of the other partner's genitals).

Gayness-as-in-bottom and effeminacy/submissiveness have always gone hand in hand; so has gayness-as-in-top and masculinity/domination (which is why ancient cultures were perfectly fine describing homosexual relationships and conquests of their champions and emperors- if it was embarrassing to the top, it wouldn't have persisted in most of the surviving sources).

[Note that 'gayness' is not a very good word for this, but all the concepts for human sexuality have been so thoroughly Newspeak'd that the labels create the behaviors/identities rather than the other way around and I don't feel like unpacking this that thoroughly right now.]

Because "n-no he identifies as a woman so it's really straight!! Really!!" comes off as desperate cope, whereas "cute is cute, regardless of gender" is more "honest" and chadly.

It's like wearing a bad wig to cover MPB versus just shaving your head.

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