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Small-Scale Question Sunday for October 8, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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A thought and question I've had bouncing around in my head that I don't expect a real answer to, or even a coherent framing, since its possible there are a few false premises at work here.

Is it possible that one side effect of the rise of Onlyfans/digital prostitution is that (many) men are noticing that (many) women know precisely what men want in a sexual partner and are willing to provide it... but only outside the context of a committed relationship.

Simply put, Onlyfans creates an extremely liquid marketplace for attractive women to produce smut content for a large audience. Content producers want to optimize to capture as many customers as possible. Something like 87% of the customers/users on OF are men. So competitive forces drive the (mostly females) creators to figure out exactly what men's sexual preferences are and provide content tailored to those preferences and produce it en masse.

So by sheer economic necessity, these women are demonstrating that they are willing to engage with men's deepest sexual desires in order to make a buck.

Imagine being a 20-something male in the current environment, being aware of the fact that you can go on OF and for the price of a cheeseburger find women who will perform almost any male sexual fantasy you could imagine. Then going on the dating market to find a woman who might be willing to indulge in fantasies with him (assume he's seeking an otherwise healthy, committed relationship).

If he goes into the dating marketplace and is open about his own personal sexual desires, he can be branded as a pervert or a sex pest because "women don't exist solely to please men" and/or "you can't reduce women to sex objects, even if they sexualize themselves." In some cases, they might just simply express ignorance of men's sexual preferences and act as though expecting sexual gratification from a partner is suspect!

But this would read as extremely bad faith given that, as above, women clearly can figure out what men want if they put in a modicum of effort, and WILL provide it when provided sufficient incentive.

Seems, to me, that seeing the difference between what women are willing to do for money and attention from thousands of onlookers online vs. how they can be unwilling to indulge their own partner's personal desires could lead to a feeling of resentment.

I don't know a single woman like this in real life. Ordinary women are human beings who love their partners, want to please them, and want to think of themselves as sexy and good in bed. Women's magazines are full of "10 Tips to Drive Him Wild!!" If you're not meeting women who are interested in mutually giving encounters, perhaps you need to move in circles more similar to mine.

The problem with magazine tips is them being trash. "Try gently kissing his nipple or the side of his abs" is not a bad advice per se, but it's ultimately inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

At no time have a majority of women aspired to perform men's sexual fantasies for pay, and in fact they generally find it degrading. The women on OnlyFans are not representative of "ordinary women." The idea that they are is a marketing gimmick, not unlike the "girlfriend experience" provided by escorts.

You are absolutely right here, except the most common male sexual fantasies are not deepthroating, rimming, watersports, a2m and other degrading acts. There are certainly escorts that combine "girlfriend experience" with a willingness to do anything for the right price, but the vast majority of the minority that can be called "escorts" achieves success by providing "GFE" and vanilla sex acts alone.

Is it the "GFE" that women find degrading? I am not a woman, so I won't insist they do, but the existence of such slurs as "pick me" that are used by women against other women suggests that at least some vocal part of them considers this behavior problematic.

Like I wrote elsewhere in the thread, the biggest threat of OF is providing "GFE" not just to men of sufficient means, but to the vast majority of them at discount prices. Why bother with a relationship with a "catty" girlfriend when you can replace her with a parasocial relationship with a time-share virtual girlfriend that is much more "doggy", plus some superstimulating porn if you need it? How many will think this is a better deal?

the existence of such slurs as "pick me" that are used by women against other women

“Pick me” is just the woman version of “simp”, it’s both an attempt to humiliate and an excoriation for being a scab from the collective lobbying position of one’s sex in the romantic marketplace, ie yielding too much to the wishes of the other gender.

Men have “simp”, “cuck”, “beta [buxx]”, women have “pickme”, “not like other girls” and “cool girl”. The purpose is preventing defection, the message is “you are behaving in a pathetic way with the opposite sex and you need to have some self respect and stop”.

How many will think this is a better deal?

Well, how many of an OF user’s say 10,000 paypigs is she fucking? Presumably zero or, if she is an escort, maybe a handful. So men who want sex will continue to have to negotiate with actual women, whether they pay actual prostitutes directly or, in most cases, pursue relationships with women.

And in any case, I think men get a lot more out of relationships than sex, including companionship, a mother for their children, often the majority of housework like cleaning, cooking and other domestic chores, shopping and various other things that the data shows women still do highly disproportionately to men. The first two alone, given the loneliness single men often face in old age and the biological drive to reproduce, might well be sufficient for many.

And I think you forget one of the most important things, which is that being able to attract beautiful women within his community/social class is one of the most important status symbols for a man, perhaps even moreso than wealth. Men will continue to work to attract women because the man who does so is respected and admired by other men.

So men who want sex will continue to have to negotiate with actual women, whether they pay actual prostitutes directly or, in most cases, pursue relationships with women.

I wonder what's happening to the rate of young men who are sexually inactive? Oh right, it's been rising steadily. It's been rising steadily since 2000, so I can't attribute its growth to OnlyFans alone, porn and videogames are probably the biggest driving factors, but the existence of women who pretend to care about you and tell you that everything's going to be all right when you feel pathetic during your refractory period certainly won't do anything to stop this trend.