naraburns nihil supernum
7mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Given the way things are going, the Palestinians (or at least the Gazans) will be remembered as perennial losers who wanted to kill Jews more than they wanted to survive. They didn't have to be fucked. There is a direct line between their refusal to back down from maximalist goals of destroying Israel and their present fate of slow strangulation.
I'd be willing to bet that if the Palestinians had adopted Gandhi's strategy, there'd be a Palestinian state right now. But nonviolent resistance until your adversaries are humiliated into submission isn't glamorous as war to the knife against your hated enemies. Hell, if they pursued a more regular unconventional war focused on Israeli military targets they might be there. But as long as they continue to preferentially target Israeli civilians and as long as they continue to assert their intention to destroy Israel there's no way the Israelis will compromise. And every so often there will some harsh reminder to the international community as to why.
I'd be willing to bet that if the Palestinians had adopted Gandhi's strategy, there'd be a Palestinian state right now.
This idea might have worked, unfortunately for them it is bad for leadership. Both Gaza and West Bank get lots of NGO and international aid money, which makes local leaders rich, while doing little for the populace. The only real path forward towards peace is an international agreement to totally isolate the two regions and provide no aid, no matter how much they claim to be in need.
That would be a step up from their current circumstances.
And also, probably yes. Levantine Singapore is probably too much to expect, but they're directly adjacent to Israel, a developed economy with a high GDP. In an alternate universe where they're not at war with Israel, they stand to benefit as a source of cheap manufacturing/labor.
I mean the West Bank is also a shithole that’s pretty bad by regional standards(although a lot better than Gaza) and they seem to mostly have rolled over.
Persisting despite seeing no sign of victory was a prerequisite for many currently extant nations. Total genocide excluded, a pragmatic acceptance of your own conquest can risk the extinction of your tribe more than the martyrdom of your current generation.
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Notes -
Given the way things are going, the Palestinians (or at least the Gazans) will be remembered as perennial losers who wanted to kill Jews more than they wanted to survive. They didn't have to be fucked. There is a direct line between their refusal to back down from maximalist goals of destroying Israel and their present fate of slow strangulation.
I'd be willing to bet that if the Palestinians had adopted Gandhi's strategy, there'd be a Palestinian state right now. But nonviolent resistance until your adversaries are humiliated into submission isn't glamorous as war to the knife against your hated enemies. Hell, if they pursued a more regular unconventional war focused on Israeli military targets they might be there. But as long as they continue to preferentially target Israeli civilians and as long as they continue to assert their intention to destroy Israel there's no way the Israelis will compromise. And every so often there will some harsh reminder to the international community as to why.
This idea might have worked, unfortunately for them it is bad for leadership. Both Gaza and West Bank get lots of NGO and international aid money, which makes local leaders rich, while doing little for the populace. The only real path forward towards peace is an international agreement to totally isolate the two regions and provide no aid, no matter how much they claim to be in need.
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Would Gaza be appreciably different from any other shithole in the region if they just rolled over and submitted?
That would be a step up from their current circumstances.
And also, probably yes. Levantine Singapore is probably too much to expect, but they're directly adjacent to Israel, a developed economy with a high GDP. In an alternate universe where they're not at war with Israel, they stand to benefit as a source of cheap manufacturing/labor.
They already are. Tens, if not hundreds if you include illegal employment, of thousands of Palestinians work in Israel or Israeli settlements.
Is that going to be as true next month as it was last month?
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I mean the West Bank is also a shithole that’s pretty bad by regional standards(although a lot better than Gaza) and they seem to mostly have rolled over.
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Exactly how I feel about the Ukrainians. They're not going to win against Russia. Their stubborn refusal is going to get them killed. It's irrational.
Persisting despite seeing no sign of victory was a prerequisite for many currently extant nations. Total genocide excluded, a pragmatic acceptance of your own conquest can risk the extinction of your tribe more than the martyrdom of your current generation.
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