naraburns nihil supernum
7mo ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
No electricity, water, or fuel for Gaza until hostages freed - Israel
Israel's Energy Minister Israel Katz says the siege of Gaza will not end until Israeli hostages are released.
In a social media post, Israel Katz said no "electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter" until the "abductees" are free.
I think this is a smart move. Even if the hostages being released remains very unlikely, it puts more of the moral burden for the siege on the Gazans, who do (broadly) support Hamas.
But the moral burden question is going to depend purely on how effective the Gazans are at broadcasting images to the outside world.
I'm just some asshole in America who has never even been to the region, so I'm not assessing credibility. But reports online have it that hospitals are running out of generators/fuel, that at this point "triage" is taking the form of deprioritizing limbs crushed by falling buildings and only treating life threatening injuries.
Which should still be blamed on Hamas, but the images will be powerful. The human suffering that will be inflicted on the people of Gaza is going to take a lot of stomach to justify for people who don't hate Arabs on a visceral pre-existing level. It's highly likely that different media bubbles (Arab vs American news; Twitter vs Telegram; Red vs Blue tribe at some level) will give different answers.
Right, the imagery available will impact how people think about it, regardless of the underlying moral logic. Personally, I find saying, "they prioritize keeping hostages over treating their own people" as an accurate and revelatory framing of the situation, but quite a few people make it no further than "people not being treated is bad".
Or they'll make it all the way to "Killing 10,000 or maiming 300,000 to save 1,000 is unjust; punishing civilians for not overthrowing their evil government is unjust" as a just and revelatory framing for their worldview.
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Notes -
No electricity, water, or fuel for Gaza until hostages freed - Israel
[From the BBC news live tracker]
I think this is a smart move. Even if the hostages being released remains very unlikely, it puts more of the moral burden for the siege on the Gazans, who do (broadly) support Hamas.
The move is smart, and I'm not sure it's wrong.
But the moral burden question is going to depend purely on how effective the Gazans are at broadcasting images to the outside world.
I'm just some asshole in America who has never even been to the region, so I'm not assessing credibility. But reports online have it that hospitals are running out of generators/fuel, that at this point "triage" is taking the form of deprioritizing limbs crushed by falling buildings and only treating life threatening injuries.
Which should still be blamed on Hamas, but the images will be powerful. The human suffering that will be inflicted on the people of Gaza is going to take a lot of stomach to justify for people who don't hate Arabs on a visceral pre-existing level. It's highly likely that different media bubbles (Arab vs American news; Twitter vs Telegram; Red vs Blue tribe at some level) will give different answers.
Right, the imagery available will impact how people think about it, regardless of the underlying moral logic. Personally, I find saying, "they prioritize keeping hostages over treating their own people" as an accurate and revelatory framing of the situation, but quite a few people make it no further than "people not being treated is bad".
Or they'll make it all the way to "Killing 10,000 or maiming 300,000 to save 1,000 is unjust; punishing civilians for not overthrowing their evil government is unjust" as a just and revelatory framing for their worldview.
This is not a morally clear and simple situation.
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