naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Israel is simply one of the more stable and reliable partners in the Middle East, and it’s worth putting up with some lip to keep them that way. Of course, it helps that our enemies are by and large also their enemies.
There’s also the democracy angle- Israel is the only functioning democracy in the region and lots of the deep state genuinely mean what they say about supporting democracy around the world.
No, I’m pretty sure Iran and friends figured out that Western modernity was a good bogeyman, even without Israel’s help. There were two superpowers to choose from, and we were blasting sex, drugs and rock’n’roll in their general direction. Why wouldn’t fundamentalists decide that this was the work of the Devil?
Iran was actually diplomatically isolated for the first decade or so after the revolution, IIRC, and both superpowers backed Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. Continued US messing in the Middle East is probably why Iran continues to be our enemy even after they made nice with Russia, but that has as much to do with oil as it does Israel.
I’m not trying to argue the merits of one culture vs. another. It’s the ingroup/outgroup status that matters. We were the obvious outside threat. If you were a disaffected young man looking for someone to blame, we’d set ourselves up perfectly for you.
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Notes -
Israel is simply one of the more stable and reliable partners in the Middle East, and it’s worth putting up with some lip to keep them that way. Of course, it helps that our enemies are by and large also their enemies.
There’s also the democracy angle- Israel is the only functioning democracy in the region and lots of the deep state genuinely mean what they say about supporting democracy around the world.
Their enemies are your enemies primarily because you back them. It's circular reasonig, basically.
No, I’m pretty sure Iran and friends figured out that Western modernity was a good bogeyman, even without Israel’s help. There were two superpowers to choose from, and we were blasting sex, drugs and rock’n’roll in their general direction. Why wouldn’t fundamentalists decide that this was the work of the Devil?
Iran was actually diplomatically isolated for the first decade or so after the revolution, IIRC, and both superpowers backed Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. Continued US messing in the Middle East is probably why Iran continues to be our enemy even after they made nice with Russia, but that has as much to do with oil as it does Israel.
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Ah, the "they hate us for our freedom" canard.
More like “for our degeneracy,” I guess?
I’m not trying to argue the merits of one culture vs. another. It’s the ingroup/outgroup status that matters. We were the obvious outside threat. If you were a disaffected young man looking for someone to blame, we’d set ourselves up perfectly for you.
They have a lot of more substantial grievences.
Well, yes.
Grievances other than backing Israel.
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