naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Southkraut
Vibe of vibes, saith the Preacher, vibe of vibes; all is vibe.
1yr ago·Edited 1yr ago
German media are overhwelmingly pro-Israel, and condemning any pro-Palestinian or both-sides takes.
Somewhat anti-progressive newspaper https://www.welt.de/ even ran several articles about freedom of opinion, including one about the https://westminsterdeclaration.org/, while at the same time publishing countless articles about the necessity of unconditional support for Israel and unconditional condemnation of Hamas and the supreme importance of Jewish life in Germany.
Other newspapers (that I've looked at) universally stick to the same lines, only without the incongruous bits about freedom of opinion.
Edit: On closer examination, left-wing papers tend to readily omit or obfuscate that the recent wave of anti-Israel sentiment is largely immigrant-borne. I suppose they're trying to imply that it's the Germans who are to blame? Conversely, of course, right-leaning papers are playing up the immigrant angle for it to dovetail into ongoing debates about immigration restrictions.
Are there any important leftovers from the 70s German left where German militants would regularly get trained in PLO camps and commit terror attacks against El-Al flights, supposedly with the support of a part of the revolutionary left?
Southkraut
Vibe of vibes, saith the Preacher, vibe of vibes; all is vibe.
Pasha 1yr ago
Sure, but they're mostly old and, by now, effectively marginalized. They passed their thoughts on to some in the younger generations, but those who actually keep the spirit of the old revolutionaries are few in numbers. Most of the current far-but-platformable-left are wokes rather than RAF revivalists. Still, it's not wrong to note that many among the population in general were vaguely or specifically pro-Palestinian.
Just like the russophiles were a substantial force in German politics until the onset of the Ukraine war neutralized them overnight - in my view the mechanism at work is the same. Both views were held by a large number of people, many of them influential, but the foreign object of their admiration started a war and that just brought the full weight of the German pacifist morality machine down on them. People probably still hold those views, but most of them will be wise enough to keep mum about them, or else be forced to operate on the absolute fringes of society.
In salient examples, the social democrat youth organization recently diplomatically suspended relations with its so-called sister org, the Fatah youth organization, to which the latter responded by very undiplomatically breaking up with the soc-dems entirely and calling the SPD a bunch of fascists.
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Notes -
German media are overhwelmingly pro-Israel, and condemning any pro-Palestinian or both-sides takes.
Somewhat anti-progressive newspaper https://www.welt.de/ even ran several articles about freedom of opinion, including one about the https://westminsterdeclaration.org/, while at the same time publishing countless articles about the necessity of unconditional support for Israel and unconditional condemnation of Hamas and the supreme importance of Jewish life in Germany.
Other newspapers (that I've looked at) universally stick to the same lines, only without the incongruous bits about freedom of opinion.
Edit: On closer examination, left-wing papers tend to readily omit or obfuscate that the recent wave of anti-Israel sentiment is largely immigrant-borne. I suppose they're trying to imply that it's the Germans who are to blame? Conversely, of course, right-leaning papers are playing up the immigrant angle for it to dovetail into ongoing debates about immigration restrictions.
Are there any important leftovers from the 70s German left where German militants would regularly get trained in PLO camps and commit terror attacks against El-Al flights, supposedly with the support of a part of the revolutionary left?
Sure, but they're mostly old and, by now, effectively marginalized. They passed their thoughts on to some in the younger generations, but those who actually keep the spirit of the old revolutionaries are few in numbers. Most of the current far-but-platformable-left are wokes rather than RAF revivalists. Still, it's not wrong to note that many among the population in general were vaguely or specifically pro-Palestinian.
Just like the russophiles were a substantial force in German politics until the onset of the Ukraine war neutralized them overnight - in my view the mechanism at work is the same. Both views were held by a large number of people, many of them influential, but the foreign object of their admiration started a war and that just brought the full weight of the German pacifist morality machine down on them. People probably still hold those views, but most of them will be wise enough to keep mum about them, or else be forced to operate on the absolute fringes of society.
In salient examples, the social democrat youth organization recently diplomatically suspended relations with its so-called sister org, the Fatah youth organization, to which the latter responded by very undiplomatically breaking up with the soc-dems entirely and calling the SPD a bunch of fascists.
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