naraburns nihil supernum
2yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Curtis Yarvin wrote about this clusterfuck: Gaza and the nomos of the earth. It makes some humorous connections between American foreign policy and dog fighting pits, and visualizes a world where America stops trying to meddle and just lets "might makes right" rule:
But this is how might makes right. Now, picture this victory—the victory of force and order over turmoil and chaos—worldwide, cleaning up all the world’s open sores. You are picturing the fall of the American empire—and realizing that, like the USSR (if much better), the GAE can actually fall upward. Almost all the problems it supposedly exists to solve will rapidly solve themselves as soon as it is gone.
Curiously, he's arguing for the US cutting Israel loose, militarily and diplomatically, but that this would lead to Israel finally sorting out the Palestinian problem, through force. I say curious, because I'm not sure if Israel is actually strong enough to stand on its own without the US supplying weapons, but if they are, well, I say Israel is illegitimate, but so be it: I don't believe in wandering into a barbaric hinterland to impose one's sense of justice or civilization, which is a big point of agreement between me and Yarvin.
Definitely felt called out hard by this line:
Are you addicted to Anglo-American missionary imperialism? Test yourself with two easy checks. Do you genuinely, emotionally, care about the plight of the Palestinians? Do you know where Stepanakert is? If your answers are “yes” and “no,” you need help.
I need help I guess, except I don't believe in militarily intervening in favor of the Palestinians.
I wonder what is the proper relation of a civilization to the barbarians. Yarvin says:
The basic way for a country to be neutral in a war is, as Hamilton observes, to trade freely with both sides, but not sell weapons (“contraband of war”) to either.
And yet, so much of the world is barbaric. Kinda makes you hope Better Angels of our Nature is true.
When Palestinians use force, that’s “turmoil”. The Israelis, though, aren’t going hard enough, and will surely set the region in “order” if they just stop hiding their power level. But God forbid the U.S. take an interest! That’d just be unreasonable!
The obvious answer to coordinated, state force is a larger, more coordinated one. Humans will go to great lengths to ensure that they’re on the winning side, up to and including making alliances. Bargaining. Silly things like promising to respect each others’ rights. Moldbug is asserting—from his position behind the biggest, most coordinated force of them all—that this time will be different. That this edifice is not a triumph of force, but a fluke which will surely crumble in the face of real men with a real taste for violence. Never mind who those men are, or whether they are any closer to his values than the degenerate elite he despises. Perhaps he forgets who it was that popularized the phrase:
“Political power springs from the barrel of a gun.”
Really? Everything I’ve ever read by him, at least since moving to gray mirror, has absolutely dripped with spite. At his most charitable, he manages to affect a fascinated curiosity at these primitive savages living in nerd world. If he’s not calling for their replacement, it’s only because he asserts that they will find his “trad” ways eventually.
He doesn’t like nerds but he’s far more sympathetic to the Washington and Wall Street elite than most other DR types and believes they can be convinced against the current system/cathedral.
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Notes -
Curtis Yarvin wrote about this clusterfuck: Gaza and the nomos of the earth. It makes some humorous connections between American foreign policy and dog fighting pits, and visualizes a world where America stops trying to meddle and just lets "might makes right" rule:
Curiously, he's arguing for the US cutting Israel loose, militarily and diplomatically, but that this would lead to Israel finally sorting out the Palestinian problem, through force. I say curious, because I'm not sure if Israel is actually strong enough to stand on its own without the US supplying weapons, but if they are, well, I say Israel is illegitimate, but so be it: I don't believe in wandering into a barbaric hinterland to impose one's sense of justice or civilization, which is a big point of agreement between me and Yarvin.
Definitely felt called out hard by this line:
I need help I guess, except I don't believe in militarily intervening in favor of the Palestinians.
I wonder what is the proper relation of a civilization to the barbarians. Yarvin says:
And yet, so much of the world is barbaric. Kinda makes you hope Better Angels of our Nature is true.
When Palestinians use force, that’s “turmoil”. The Israelis, though, aren’t going hard enough, and will surely set the region in “order” if they just stop hiding their power level. But God forbid the U.S. take an interest! That’d just be unreasonable!
The obvious answer to coordinated, state force is a larger, more coordinated one. Humans will go to great lengths to ensure that they’re on the winning side, up to and including making alliances. Bargaining. Silly things like promising to respect each others’ rights. Moldbug is asserting—from his position behind the biggest, most coordinated force of them all—that this time will be different. That this edifice is not a triumph of force, but a fluke which will surely crumble in the face of real men with a real taste for violence. Never mind who those men are, or whether they are any closer to his values than the degenerate elite he despises. Perhaps he forgets who it was that popularized the phrase:
“Political power springs from the barrel of a gun.”
Moldbug doesn’t despise the elite or even desire to replace them, he just thinks they need to be ideologically converted.
Really? Everything I’ve ever read by him, at least since moving to gray mirror, has absolutely dripped with spite. At his most charitable, he manages to affect a fascinated curiosity at these primitive savages living in nerd world. If he’s not calling for their replacement, it’s only because he asserts that they will find his “trad” ways eventually.
He doesn’t like nerds but he’s far more sympathetic to the Washington and Wall Street elite than most other DR types and believes they can be convinced against the current system/cathedral.
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