naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
That the IDF released audio of Hamas operatives saying it was from Islamic Jihad, but the audio is clearly faked with bad Palestinian accents and crappy acting. Why do you think the IDF would release obviously doctored audio? Stupidity thinking that no one would call them on it? Rationally making the calculation their supporters would eat it up and it won't make their detractors any angrier than they are? That maybe it isn't actually faked and some Hamas operatives actually do just talk like that? But even to me, I don't speak a lick of Arabic, the tone of voices does sound like script reading and it felt very convenient how they described so much incriminating and explanatory information in a minute of conversation, like exposition from the beginning of a bad movie. Thoughts?
The challenge with propaganda in a conflict like this is that you need the high level, smart stuff that can be at least semi-verified by autistic YouTube journalists AND the most banal, likely fake, dumb propaganda of the Rape of Belgium variety.
Look at the Hamas hospital stuff. Arabs are already the people most likely to believe in weird conspiracies, no ordinary Arab is ever going to buy that Israel didn’t bomb the hospital yesterday. So the Hamas propaganda completely worked, even though it was an obvious lie.
Israel needs both the high level technical proof, and a dumb, obviously fake “intercepted audio” call to convince the average person on the street who isn’t going to listen to a 5 minute lecture on crater size and casualty counts.
Dumb people and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race. At a certain point of intelligence you should just accept that you're not smart enough to meaningfully understand what's going on in the world on large scales and should content yourself with your garden.
Lest someone accuse me of only saying this because I am intelligent, if tomorrow 200 IQ aliens from the planet Tralfamadore suddenly arrived and took over the world I would apply those words to myself.
Would you really though? If their first proclamation was, "With our immense IQ we have decided BurdensomeCountTheWhite, his family line and all his friends and family must be wiped from the Earth, so as to facilitate the future flourishing of the great Tralfamadore Empire". Are you going to walk your friends and family into the disintegration chamber? You are just going to trust that they know what's best?
I would fight them, I would not walk into the disintegration chamber at all. This is probably my Pashtun ancestry speaking but I would far prefer to die like a lion than die like a sheep. But that's not the scenario above, that scenario above is dying like a lion vs living as an extra comfortable sheep, and I've experienced enough creature comforts that Leo can go for a hike.
Right, but you have a red line somewhere, which is presumably somewhere BEFORE they order your death to make tasty BurdensomeCountTheWhite chops for alien Easter. When they start shaving your hair for stylish human hair jumpers? When they order you neutered? When they round you up and put you in a pen? When they decide who you can breed with to maximise hair growth? When they take away your ability to earn a living? When they only allow you to watch TV shows involving benevolent aliens? When they only allow IQ 200 people to have a say in government legally? When they decide who you can breed with to maximise IQ uplift? When they decide where you can live? What job you can hold? When they decide you should just stay home and garden? When they decide the words of an intellectual dullard are pointless, and so ban you from the Motte? The position, that their intellectual superiority makes you irrelevant to decision making has practical impact on what policies they will pursue. Presumably at some point your Pashtun sensibilities will decide that dying like a lion is better than living like an actual sheep? Or maybe they will put you in a zoo like we do with lions. A cultural artefact for alien clonelings to ooh and ahh at.
In other words, just because the aliens are smarter than you, and make better decisions than you, does not mean the values they are working towards will be good for you. Just because you are smarter than IQ 100 Tony, does not mean that he should submit to your decision making unless he actually agrees with your goals. If you want to outsource manufacturing which will gut his town. Even if you are correct that it will make the world better off, he does not have to agree that the trade off is worth it. And if he does not agree, his view is just as valid as yours.
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Notes -
In regards to the recent hospital explosion, it's looking increasingly likely that Israel did not cause the explosion.
https://manifold.markets/MilfordHammerschmidt/did-the-idf-just-now-blow-up-a-hosp
I saw this however on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/1714670858914894046?t=UcPxGEUM5ShnUpc8Hav3Vw&s=19
https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1714548529538953637?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714548529538953637%7Ctwgr%5E4bbaa419eb9133e336435eb810800500af090537%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hindustantimes.com%2Fworld-news%2Fidf-shares-audio-of-hamas-allegedly-talking-about-rocket-that-hit-gaza-hospital-it-misfired-101697630817752.html
That the IDF released audio of Hamas operatives saying it was from Islamic Jihad, but the audio is clearly faked with bad Palestinian accents and crappy acting. Why do you think the IDF would release obviously doctored audio? Stupidity thinking that no one would call them on it? Rationally making the calculation their supporters would eat it up and it won't make their detractors any angrier than they are? That maybe it isn't actually faked and some Hamas operatives actually do just talk like that? But even to me, I don't speak a lick of Arabic, the tone of voices does sound like script reading and it felt very convenient how they described so much incriminating and explanatory information in a minute of conversation, like exposition from the beginning of a bad movie. Thoughts?
The challenge with propaganda in a conflict like this is that you need the high level, smart stuff that can be at least semi-verified by autistic YouTube journalists AND the most banal, likely fake, dumb propaganda of the Rape of Belgium variety.
Look at the Hamas hospital stuff. Arabs are already the people most likely to believe in weird conspiracies, no ordinary Arab is ever going to buy that Israel didn’t bomb the hospital yesterday. So the Hamas propaganda completely worked, even though it was an obvious lie.
Israel needs both the high level technical proof, and a dumb, obviously fake “intercepted audio” call to convince the average person on the street who isn’t going to listen to a 5 minute lecture on crater size and casualty counts.
Dumb people and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race. At a certain point of intelligence you should just accept that you're not smart enough to meaningfully understand what's going on in the world on large scales and should content yourself with your garden.
Lest someone accuse me of only saying this because I am intelligent, if tomorrow 200 IQ aliens from the planet Tralfamadore suddenly arrived and took over the world I would apply those words to myself.
Suppose that they proclaim they're smarter than you even though by any metric you can understand, including IQ, they aren't.
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Would you really though? If their first proclamation was, "With our immense IQ we have decided BurdensomeCountTheWhite, his family line and all his friends and family must be wiped from the Earth, so as to facilitate the future flourishing of the great Tralfamadore Empire". Are you going to walk your friends and family into the disintegration chamber? You are just going to trust that they know what's best?
I would fight them, I would not walk into the disintegration chamber at all. This is probably my Pashtun ancestry speaking but I would far prefer to die like a lion than die like a sheep. But that's not the scenario above, that scenario above is dying like a lion vs living as an extra comfortable sheep, and I've experienced enough creature comforts that Leo can go for a hike.
Right, but you have a red line somewhere, which is presumably somewhere BEFORE they order your death to make tasty BurdensomeCountTheWhite chops for alien Easter. When they start shaving your hair for stylish human hair jumpers? When they order you neutered? When they round you up and put you in a pen? When they decide who you can breed with to maximise hair growth? When they take away your ability to earn a living? When they only allow you to watch TV shows involving benevolent aliens? When they only allow IQ 200 people to have a say in government legally? When they decide who you can breed with to maximise IQ uplift? When they decide where you can live? What job you can hold? When they decide you should just stay home and garden? When they decide the words of an intellectual dullard are pointless, and so ban you from the Motte? The position, that their intellectual superiority makes you irrelevant to decision making has practical impact on what policies they will pursue. Presumably at some point your Pashtun sensibilities will decide that dying like a lion is better than living like an actual sheep? Or maybe they will put you in a zoo like we do with lions. A cultural artefact for alien clonelings to ooh and ahh at.
In other words, just because the aliens are smarter than you, and make better decisions than you, does not mean the values they are working towards will be good for you. Just because you are smarter than IQ 100 Tony, does not mean that he should submit to your decision making unless he actually agrees with your goals. If you want to outsource manufacturing which will gut his town. Even if you are correct that it will make the world better off, he does not have to agree that the trade off is worth it. And if he does not agree, his view is just as valid as yours.
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