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I live in a very very progressive part of the world, and I went to a small local craft market event today. Near the event, there was a 65ish year old woman waving around a GOP tote bag at cars and people passing by. Everyone was ignoring her, but I went to talk to her.
It started out just fine. I told her (in a friendly way) that she's unlikely to change any minds here, and she replied that that she's just trying to show people that there are others out there who have had enough of the progressive orthodoxy, citing CRT, transgenderism, etc. She felt like maybe this might just convince some young people to even question whether there's another viewpoint out there, or convince those who are hiding their views to speak up more. I definitely respected and agreed with that.
Then, her stream of consciousness-style insane ramblings started coming out. She went on for like 7 minutes without pausing, about so many topics I couldn't even keep track, jumping from one to the other. I recall her mentioning that leftists want to harvest and sell fetus organs, and somehow she started talking about slavery and pre-civil war America, waving a book around trying to show me underlined passages trying to liken the practice of slavery to what progressives are doing today, maybe implying that leftists want to return to pre-civil war America in some way. It was pretty hard to manage to get away.
This comes in the wake of being at my wife's family event where her crazy uncle kept bringing up conservative talking points apropos of nothing, shoehorning them into conversations which everyone tried politely to ignore, and was a total conversation killer. I'm usually only used to leftists doing that.
These experiences were pretty disheartening to me. I spend so much time here on The Motte that I end up feeling like people who are anti-progressive are probably more thoughtful and less crazy than progressives and more in touch with reality. But that's probably not true. I guess a lot of conservatives really are in their own echo chambers just as much as leftists are. Probably a good number of them really take seriously the conspiracy-style theories of talking head personalities in the style of Glenn Beck and Alex Jones. The true disconnect on both sides, from each other and probably also from reality and the true values of most people, is a very sad state of affairs.
I truly believe that the way we tend to talk about things on the Motte and in rationalist-adjacent spaces makes sense, and seems like far more logical discourse than I can find anywhere else. But of course I would, I'm part of this specific world. Any leftist would say the same about their progressive reddit subs, and most republicans would say that about the comments section in the Daily Wire. Is there any evidence that we're not just rambling buffoons in our own echo chamber, just like I'd find on either end of the spectrum?
People in repressive regimes easily get overloaded, fed up, frustrated, and of course make more than a fair share of mistakes, even when they are basically on the right track. Not everyone can be an Oskar Schindler -- that level of cool under fire is rare and valuable. And in those areas with the highest concentration of repression, selection pressures will be very significant; you would expect only to find those outliers, in terms of personality, who would be both motivated enough and perseverant enough to dive into those depths, and those traits are likely to correlate with plenty of other things that can be weaknesses. There are fine lines -- and relative ones -- between perspicacity and paranoia, between holistic judgment and black-and-white thinking, between personal virtues and social vices, etc.
I find in talking with progressives as well as MAGA types that there is usually a core or kernel of value, often surrounded and obscured by more dubious stuff, but I am well passed the idea that "extremism" or even major asocial/atypical behavior is a reliable indicator that someone should be ignored. Too many central, stable, status-quo social formations, ideologies, and institutions have been revealed to be grossly mistaken at best and patently corrupt at worst. My guess is there may well be a very interesting historical connection being drawn by the woman, for instance, even if it happens to be wrong (though who's to say if we haven't even encountered its content?).
This is the conclusion I've come to as well. The people who are most likely to break from any social hegemony and are most willing to criticise its most sacred tenets (which I believe can be a valuable and necessary thing to do) are almost certainly going to have many outlier personality traits which mean they likely won't behave in a manner which people would usually term as "pro-social", even in other parts of life unrelated to politics.
Most of the time, the people who will break from the majority or mainstream view are likely to lean towards being bitter, disagreeable provocateurs who don't care much for "the wisdom of the masses" or the niceties of social life. Additionally, the very effective ones are likely going to be driven and almost obsessive in nature, but they're also going to be motivated by very different considerations than your average person is.
I suspect that, often, you would find more than a small heaping of self-destruction in their behaviours too - it kind of comes with the territory when you're not only willing to firmly stick to your unorthodox beliefs but also risk social death in order to promote these beliefs (keeping in mind that a willingness to self-deceive e.g. genuinely believing in the orthodox view and promoting it is the most personally beneficial behaviour in terms of social gain). "I will die on the hill of my convictions"-type behaviours are principled but almost certainly do not correlate with positive personal outcomes.
I can very much testify that in my experience, those attributes that make one personable and affable and those that make one an independent thinker who is willing to openly criticise mainstream thought in any significant way do not seem to overlap.
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Perhaps there was truth in the Soviet diagnosis of sluggish schizophrenia, its just that it was caused by the regime itself.
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