This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It is clear as long as Israel is an expansionist country pushing Palestinians out of their homes, blockading them and making it impossible to have a continous Palestine there won't be peace. Israel undermines nearby countries such as Syria creating fallout that spreads across the region and into Europe in the form of waves of refugees. Israel and their expansionist policies are a major source of the regions problems and they are not interested in letting millions of Arabs live in peace in the town their family has lived in for generations.
When Americans were too into a warmongering fury 20 years ago the Iraqis and taliban helped them come to their senses with a firm and proper lessons in not sticking one's nose where it doesn't belong. The Palestinians are currently doing the same. Israel needs a good hard punch in order to learn to keep out of Palestinian territory. Unless Israel gets a proper shakedown the Israel problem and the massive waves of migrants they produce won't be stopped.
Yeah, the Iraqis did such a great job teaching that lesson that they are still using the constitution that Americans wrote for them. Let's be clear: the Iraqi "insurgency" was not some sort of anti-Imperialist endeavor; it was a civil war. That is why the "insurgents" killed vastly more civilians than they did coalition troops.
And the Taliban was so good at teaching that lesson that they killed all of an average of 100 US servicemen per year
While the Taliban's K/D ratio was atrocious, they were effective at:
Did we learn any lessons? Survey says no. But I feel like America lost the war in Afghanistan for all intents and purposes.
Not really. $100 billion per year = about $300 bucks per American, or
Yes, but the key there is "after the occupation ended."
Well, in order to learn lessons, we have to understand what actually happened, it seems to me
Ehh capitalizing it over the course of a 20 year conflict is a bit of a slight of hand. I didn't want to pay $300/year || $6,000 in taxes to pay for Iraq and Afghanistan. You've also got 6,000 Americans killed (ARV of $7.5m apiece) which isn't factored into those costs, much less the QALY's of the wounded.
Even if you exclude casualty values, ~$45k per enemy combatant is expensive, and this is assuming no value for the civilians we killed.
This was one of the most expensive mistakes in US history by almost any metric. It's annoying that it was so obvious for so long, and the only person with the balls to actually stop the madness was Joe fucking Biden.
I didn't want to pay either; nevertheless, there is no way that the costs can be described as "massive."
But relatively cheap for educating millions of Afghan girls. If you are going to weigh costs and benefits, you have to include all of them.
Was the increase in the education of Afghan girls worth the increase in sexual abuse of Afghan boys?
Probably? I'd assume so given most common values, unless the figures are grossly lopsided.
I would be extremely surprised if it was not worth it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link