This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Update on the Paul Kessler death from last week (link to Gattsurus post from last week's thread):
Police have arrested the Palestinian supporting computer science professor that allegedly swung a megaphone at Kessler; a pro-Israel counter protestor, resulting in the latter falling down and hitting his head leading to death.
...
...
...
I know there was a fair bit of speculation around whether he would or would not be charged, but it seems like the cops think they might have enough evidence to make this stick (even though they are still asking people to come forward if they were a witness or have video). Either that or they've decided they'd better do everything they can to dodge the political consequences of not prosecuting with so much signal boosting from jewish advocacy groups.
@gattsuru linked an earlier post by @FCfromSSC that opines that Blue Tribers are less likely to face consequences of these sorts of scuffles. If that theory is correct than perhaps Jewish Zionists still rate higher than Palestinians on the progressive stack and in situations like this the lower ranking Blue Triber will face punishment more like the Red Tribe.
Also, if you're going to go to a protest and be a maskless speaker it seems like you should do whatever you can to avoid scuffling. Without a mask Alnaji didn't have the option of leaving the scene with his anonymity intact.
Part of my post and point was that Kessler was a Blue Triber, and the extent the incident was so concerning was that this was a Blue-on-Blue incident. To whatever limited extent the "progressive stack" makes sense when talking about social dynamics or minor crimes (a la the inevitable bike comic) applying it wholesale to a case where someone died struck me as a pretty serious escalation. And even for minor crimes, I'm not sure the "progressive stack" is a great model.
Here, if he's found guilty (or demonstrated innocent or not-likely-guilty at trial), it shouldn't surprise you. That's what people were highlighting at length as what death demanded during the Rittenhouse or Gardner catastrophes. It was something to update on when Dolloff wasn't prosecuted; you can't be shocked both ways at once.
The question isn't "is he found guilty", the question is "is he found guilty and punished similarly to how a red triber would have been".
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link