This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
That's not really what his question is about.
I've never accused him of being concise and clear, or having a point.
Am I supposed to sob in horror at the idea of replacing humans with soulless automata instead? He doesn't provide any reason to think that humans or LLMs can't both be represented as the output of statistical processes occurring on computational substrates, even if said processes and substrates are very different.
Why can't we all just get along?
Well, it's less humans, and more you in particular. It's also less about sobbing in horror, and more about whether you see much of a difference between the two cases. I think the question is interesting given Rat ideas on uploading consciousness.
There's about a zero percent chance that Hlynka doesn't know about my enthusiasm for the potential of mind uploading, with me seeing such an emulation of a human mind as equivalent in every way that matters to me as the same as a biological human.
That is not the same as replacing a human with a LLM trained on the corpus of their text, with outputs indistinguishable from the human. You'd need to do way more to establish it as a high fidelity replication of the original consciousness, even if I think in principle it's doable.
I don’t know that it is, and I think in time we’ll come to understand that training an advanced LLM on our personalities and actions is ‘mind uploading’ in the science fiction sense.
I agree that in principle, it is possible to emulate a complex system to within the limits of observation and random error by treating it as a blackbox and then training on its outputs or response to stimuli.
After all, in ML, that's already a thing in the form of teacher-student distillation, where you train a new neural net to be indistinguishable from another by feeding it the latter's outputs.
I still don't think that just training on a corpus of text written by a human is sufficient to reproduce said human, maybe if you had an enormous amount of video, audio and other biometrics. It's arguably better than nothing as a form of immortality, but I personally expect more. If it can be demonstrated that such a technique is somehow equivalent to mind uploading via scanning, then I'll have no objections.
I agree there are some important multimodal steps left, but they’re all happening pretty quickly. I think people will be stunned how well they can be captured just by training on their linked social media and text message data when that becomes easily available. Since most people are very similar, and even ‘personality quirks’ are often repeated, it’s likely that the tuning required is less than one might expect. Personalities aren’t actually very unique.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link