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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 20, 2023

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Last week, @ShariaHeap brought up some interesting points on the evolution of religion under the discussion of Bronze Age history that went under-discussed, in my humble opinion.

Specifically they ask:

is it better to think that standards of cooperation that evolved in hunter-gatherer tribes are set early, and understandings around symbols that serve flourishing somewhat timeless, such that most religions have access to them in differing degrees and emphases.

Or, finally, do they each capture something unique, and thus we should seek wisdom through their plurality, essentially operating in a secular mode?

To me, this question can be boiled down to - are all religions equally good, or are some better than others?

Of course we have to get into the 'objective morality versus subjective/post-modern plurality' debate here, which can be it's own morass. But I am curious about how, if you do take religions as potentially better or worse comparatively, how would they stack up?

I've been writing and thinking about an idea that many religions which are popular today are essentially negative when it comes to divine beings - as in, the popular Vitalism that talks about Mother Earth and the interconnectedness of the universe basically deny any explicit 'being' such as God. Typically the ultimate experience of divinity can be revealed in a sort of non-dualistic merging with the universe, or dissolution of the ego.

Buddhism and Hinduism in some strains, as well as Taoism, have heavily influenced this line of mystical thinking.

On the other end you have the more 'positive' versions of religion or mystical experience, that posit the existence of a God or pantheon of gods. While the two can coexist to some degree, like in Hinduism with Brahman etc, they do seem to have very fundamentally different structures at their core.

In his book Orthodoxy, G.K. Chesterton takes a stab at more negative conceptions of the divine, fiercely stating:

The eternity of the material fatalists, the eternity of the eastern pessimists, the eternity of the supercilious theosophists and higher scientists of to-day is, indeed, very well presented by a serpent eating his tail, a degraded animal who destroys even himself.

In this view, the more Eastern or pessimistic or cyclical religions are fundamentally destructive on a larger scale - they argue that nothing means anything, that all will end the same as it began, reality is ultimately an illusion, et cetera.

By contrast, Christianity and other monotheistic religions push us forward to some sort of Progress, which as we have seen... can have its own issues.

I'm curious if this specific topic has been discussed before, and if other folks here have anything to add?

Religions are not “equally good” and this is partly because they have different pursuits and points of emphasis. Religious practices involve focusing on and expanding specific elements of human cognition. The old Pagan practice of placating a flippant God or contractually offering your sacrifice according to the terms of your petition are not increasing “prosocial love for others”, which is what modern Westerners consider to be the chief Good (which grew out of Christianity). Those Pagan practices are instead increasing one’s aptitude for fulfilling promises — highly important, but not quite good. Certain Buddhist sects that promote mindfulness and dispassionate will increase a person’s attention and equanimity. But again, this isn’t sufficient to make a person good. Judaism’s focus on following hundreds of little rules and engaging in festivals that increase ethnic love will definitely create a tight-knit bloodline, but not necessarily a good community. (Judaism’s emphasis on analyzing and discussing texts, however, is definitely good, because it leads to logical adherent, yet I don’t think this is sufficient.) Islam’s abundant emphasis on obedience and pleasures of the afterlife creates a lot of excellent and violent martyrs, but not a lot of little selfless loving martyrs in everyday affairs.

It’s important we don’t get bogged down in speculative theology when evaluating religion. For 90% of adherents, they are engaging in a particular practice with a few dozen stories and expectations. This is what decides the expansion of a religion and the morality of a society. Highbrow theology is interesting (I think it will find its completion in psychology) but it’s not actually that relevant for changing the behaviors of humans. For a religion to be good, it needs to make the behaviors of most of its adherents good. A religion that only makes its theologians good would be a very poor religion indeed.

I don’t think that Christianity is some God-ordained perfect religion — that would be superstitious — but I think it’s approximately the optimal religion, and all other close contenders would look a lot like it.

are religious symbols “objective”?

I see Religious Language as a hack that creates civilization. The hack works on our innate instincts, and it sublimates our instincts toward some intended behavior. For some given civilizational goal, there is probably one or a few symbols that are “optimized”, but I don’t think it’s the kind of thing where humanity is born altogether with ideal symbolism that they need to understand. One great symbol is “heaven above”. The clouds and the movements of the stars dictate weather and seasons, and thus crops and safety; it is immense; we are innately attracted to them; it is always above us. So, a celestial realm where Gods live always above us, always controlling affairs — this is an obvious choice for where God reside. This is better than the pagan’s mountains.

I don’t think that Christianity is some God-ordained perfect religion — that would be superstitious — but I think it’s approximately the optimal religion, and all other close contenders would look a lot like it.

If you buy that liberalism, humanism and even atheism etc. are all profoundly Christian ideas (Tom Holland's thesis in 'Dominion') then a religion which lays the groundwork for its own collapse is probably not close to an optimal religion. Secularisation, universality, equal value and such are all core concepts of Christianity, and so one may say it was inevitable that such a belief system would eventually be superseded by the current form of itself. Some may argue that these are reformation/Protestant trends, but look at the Pope!

One can imagine an Ontological argument (if a religion is optimal, it exists...) here. Would an optimal religion leave room open (nay, encourage!) doubt and lead to its own demise, or would it be in fact that which had the strongest grip on its population and cultural success over time?

then a religion which lays the groundwork for its own collapse is probably not close to an optimal religion.

This would be a far stronger argument if a different religion would take its place, rather than atheism.

My theory for the demise of religion in the west is that we've succeeded too well at reigning in chaos and spreading knowledge for religion to be seen as valuable by most people. For a substantial part, that is because we have become so good at producing a good society to live in. If this is the goal of Christianity, then it made itself obsolete.

Muslim population of England and Wales 2001: 1.6m 2011: 2.7m 2021: 3.9m

Christian population of England and Wales 2001: 47.3m 2011: 33.2m 2021: 27.5m

Somewhat tongue in cheek, so 2 caveats:

  1. 'No religion' has seen a larger rise (although as above, 'no religion' if replaced by the secular, humanist, liberal Western milieu which seems to be commonplace can be seen as a religion in and of itself).
  2. Large chunks of the Muslim population growth are either new arrivals or 2nd, 3rd gen migrants. It'd have been interesting to see if Islamic adherence over time could have continued if there'd been strong pressure to convert/the legal status of the CoE had been maintained.

I imagine that the replacement of Christianity with a weak 'Western Humanist' religion is not a long term equilibrium. Something else will fill the gap- what that is remains to be seen.