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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023

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Then I'd see white people, Indians, Asians. There's only so many middle-class black people to go around, and they are not equally distributed across the country.

Black people of any class aren't equally distributed around the country. famously, 51% of suspensions from school given to black students as punishment were given in the 13 states of the former Confederacy... which is where 51% of black students live, because it's where 51% of black people live.

Police chiefs, judges and surgeons are not 'moderately successful' imo.

Pretty sure black police chiefs aren't exactly rare IRL. Judges I have no idea about, but I do enjoy Clarence Thomas. Surgeons I have no idea about, but would expect "Blacks less likely" to apply.

The average American knows that 'black' neighborhoods are not places you want to spend too much time in

Sure.

'black' schools are not places they want their kids to attend

Sure.

and unless they personally know Mr Smith down the street, a black face in their neighborhood is cause for some concern.

Nope. There's too many middle-class black people where I live, way too far from the actual ghetto, for this to be a realistic concern. This isn't the 60s. Nice neighborhoods don't turn to shit overnight when blacks flood in from the ghetto. We've built an elaborate social system that pretty well precludes that particular mistake from being repeated, barring overwhelming and abrupt government action. The blacks moving in can afford the housing prices, which means they've more or less got their shit together.

The ones that ads usually portray are basically 'average middle-class white American but dark-skinned' and I really don't think that's that common.

And I'm telling you that "average middle class white american but dark-skinned" is what a notable portion of my neighbors look like. I'm lower-middle-class. I'm an artist, I don't make programmer money. My wife and I together are barely making it into six figures. We are not big shots, and neither are our neighbors, and yet a fair number of them are black.

Why would this be surprising? Given that Blacks are Less Likely, and given that most people are doing pretty okay, you should expect the bell curve on Black economic status to have a fat left tail and generally be shifted leftward, but otherwise to have roughly the same shape per-capita. So there's a lot more poor blacks and a lot less rich blacks relative to whites, but the middle portion of the graph is going to be fairly similar.

Nope. There's too many middle-class black people where I live, way too far from the actual ghetto, for this to be a realistic concern. This isn't the 60s. Nice neighborhoods don't turn to shit overnight when blacks flood in from the ghetto. We've built an elaborate social system that pretty well precludes that particular mistake from being repeated, barring overwhelming and abrupt government action. The blacks moving in can afford the housing prices, which means they've more or less got their shit together.

FC, you're Southern, aren't you?

I've found that a lot of people have trouble conceiving of the Suburban South as anything but Bull Connor's Alabama. The idea that the modern South has a lot more black people than other parts of the country and therefore -- blacks less likely or not -- has a lot more middle class black people is just outside of most people's experience.

I suspect this has a lot to do with it, yes. Also, I live in an area that takes the Second Amendment and self-defense generally pretty seriously, so if there is a genuine problem we can probably handle it, and are relatively unlikely to get screwed after the fact by the powers that be.

Hopefully you have more sense than to film yourself and call the police on yourself if anything needs to be handled.

While TV ads may actually accurately represent the proportion of black Americans in your environment (51% seems about right), they still vastly overrepresent the proportion in mixed-race relationships, and most of these actors don't have a southern accent either.

Additionally, Southern people are about the only group media members still find appropriate to poke fun at, so I doubt that the average middle class black Southern American actually feels very represented by California-based productions dripping with contempt for his lifestyle.

Hopefully you have more sense than to film yourself and call the police on yourself if anything needs to be handled.

I'm familiar with the incident, and I think my assessment differs pretty significantly from yours.

By contrast, Gardner and Zimmerman are actual examples of responsible self-defense against blacks being subsequently railroaded by the local, state and federal authorities. The best defense against this is to not live among Blues, and it is a strategy I pursue; it won't save you from the Feds if the Eye of Sauron falls on you, but it's a good option that I recommend to all Reds.

While TV ads may actually accurately represent the proportion of black Americans in your environment

They don't, at all. I've repeatedly agreed that TV ads (and shows, and movies, comics, print media, video games, pretty much all visual media) vastly and intentionally overrepresent blacks and intentionally frame them as positively as possible, to the point of complete absurdity. I've offered my own evidence that this is an intentional, conscious choice being made top-down by the media producers, backed by an engineered perception of consensus, itself maintained by bullshit social harassment tactics.

None of this means I need any of this blatant propaganda to see normal, productive, law-abiding black people, because there are literally tens of millions of them, many of them living in my immediate environment.

they still vastly overrepresent the proportion in mixed-race relationships, and most of these actors don't have a southern accent either.

Entirely true, and I'm fully aware of the stats on mixed-race divorce, elevated rates of spousal abuse, etc. Black people have a lot of problems. A fair number of black people are a problem, in the sense that they are committed to violence and lawlessness and there's nothing to be done about it but avoid or defend against them. And yet, there's many millions of black people who are not like that, and avoiding the one and coexisting with the other is more or less a solved problem in large swathes of the country. The obvious existence of absurdly-huge volumes of anti-white and pro-black propaganda doesn't change this fact. Blacks aren't even the source of the Propaganda; Blues are.

Blacks aren't even the source of the Propaganda; Blues are.

Some of whom, mind, are black.

This is a big bugaboo of mine: Everybody is so obsessed with ragging on the young white radicals ruining everything they seem to just not notice the young black radicals who are right next to them. My personal theory is that people, even the ostensibly 'anti-woke', really have internalized that it's somehow OK to be mean to white people in a way that it's pretty much never OK to be mean to black people, even if the black people are behaving in exactly the same way as the whites.

It's also something you see coming from some on the right, where they're convinced blacks are just a bunch of conservatives kept on the Democratic reservation by something like brainwashing. In reality, a lot of black people I've met really do have quite different political opinions from me on a bunch of issues with low direct salience to race. For example, a lot of black people in Northern cities really are much more pro-gun control, even if they happen to also share some conservative opinions on homosexuality or gender roles.

The best defense against this is to not live among Blues, and it is a strategy I pursue;

Clearly not for your employment.

And yet, there's many millions of black people who are not like that, and avoiding the one and coexisting with the other is more or less a solved problem in large swathes of the country.

I disagree with that assessment. It wasn't solved for the McMichaels, and it's not solved for thousands of white Americans. Every productive black American potentially comes with a family member in-and-out of jail, a vindictive ex-partner, former gang relationships etc etc. It appears to me that the college-educated ones are deeply Blue, while the other ones have a vague ethnic commitment where if they were to commit a crime they'd go for a white target rather than their kin.

Nothing may ever happen to you and your family, that seems unlikely, but possible. If something does happen to you and a cell phone video is taken, then an entire country will be against you, and even being exonerated may take weeks or months.

I'm familiar with the incident, and I think my assessment differs pretty significantly from yours.

I don't think there is a need to prosecute this kind of altercation. Chicago calls it 'mutual combat'.

If death is the potential consequence to 'inspecting job sites' on private property, then maybe that will deter such behavior. Is that good or bad? Let the locals decide.

If I felt attacked by some outsiders lurking around my property and my people, I would want my neighbors to come out and support me, not worry about due process, staying home letting the government or nobody handle it.

Pretty sure black police chiefs aren't exactly rare IRL. Judges I have no idea about, but I do enjoy Clarence Thomas. Surgeons I have no idea about, but would expect "Blacks less likely" to apply.

If you meet Clarence Thomas walking your dog, you don't live in the average American neighborhood.

The blacks moving in can afford the housing prices, which means they've more or less got their shit together.

They don't need to move in to be in a neighborhood, sometimes they're just 'jogging' through. If none of your neighbors are black and you see some unknown dark faces then it is uncommon.

Could be somebody's friend visiting or one of the horrific situations you hear about on the news too often.

	

So there's a lot more poor blacks and a lot less rich blacks relative to whites, but the middle portion of the graph is going to be fairly similar.

I don't think your neighborhood is representative of what white American tv watchers live.

I know of 2 different wealthy/middle-class neighborhoods with a mix of Indians and whites in 2 different states, but I've never been in a mixed black wealthy/middle class neighborhood. I'm sure black judges and surgeons live in nice neighborhoods, but I expect them to be in a minority there and to be unlikely to see them while walking my dog.

Nope. There's too many middle-class black people where I live, way too far from the actual ghetto, for this to be a realistic concern.

My point all along is that your specific living situation is not universal across the country, yet advertisers predominantly show that specific white-washed middle-class American, with 'middle-class white Americans but dark-skinned' actors.

I think it would be better to show more black people on the poor side (ie the majority of them) and I'm sure white people on the poor side would also be able to relate to them. From what I've noticed, (poor) black women are more likely to be taking care of their family personally, at home.

I knew of one college students taking classes online while full-time handling a heavily disabled brother.

I had one neighbor (who was not a judge, police chief, surgeon etc) who had 2 disabled family members living with them. On my first and only conversation with another of her relatives I later learned was a convicted felon, they casually shared the story of some uncle doing time for a horrific homicide. I've know of many apparently 'good' white families with a failson, junkie or other - supposedly there is even one in the White House- but to me that interaction stood out. This kind of nuance of a good, hard-working person being 1-degree related to brutal [former?] criminals is not something American media shows.

The type of black people who appear in the media are more likely to show concern for admission to Ivy League schools, disparities in boardrooms and other upper-class concerns than the type of issues that most black Americans have to deal with. Broken families, out-of-wedlock childrearing, food deserts, transportation issues, crime issues...

If you meet Clarence Thomas walking your dog, you don't live in the average American neighborhood.

Doesn't his mom live in some lower-middle-class borderline shithole southern hood? There was some controversy around him selling her house to a wealthy acquaintance for high five figures as I recall.

[EDIT] "his", it turns out, is genuinely ambiguous.

Unless you are Clarence Thomas, I think there is some confusion going on here...

...oh. that makes a great deal more sense.

Fucking pronouns, man