site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Henry Kissinger died today. I knew he was a popular punching bag for the left, but seeing the barrage of over-the-top reactions gives me the feeling that I’m missing something. My impression is that Kissinger was a brilliant diplomat who laid the foundation for total American victory in the Cold War. Even if you’re a bleeding-heart internationalist who thinks he’s bad for killing foreigners in Indochina, his role in normalizing relations with China probably saved way more Asian lives than he killed. What is the steelman “Kissinger is evil” position? What am I missing?

He is one of the people who pushed globohomo on the world. He was a key architect in creating a global order that is a giant airport terminal, bland, placeless, multicultural and generic with mass surveillance and shopping. The world order he pushed makes national sovereignty impossible as we are all subject to an imposed world order by the US. The US milks us by rigging trade and acting as a financial hub while barking orders at us and occasionally killing hundreds of thousands of people in a war of aggression and leaving us with the migrants.

The world order he pushed makes national sovereignty impossible as we are all subject to an imposed world order by the US.

American FoPo before the Kissinger era was much more self-conciously about America being the hegemon and not being able to tolerate rival power centers. Nixon and Kissinger were unique partially because they believed there not only could but should be multiple great powers.

The President is proceeding not only to establish a rapprochement with Peking but to work out specific accords with China's main adversary, the Soviet Union, and to encourage new trade with the restive Communist nations of Eastern Europe, all the while trying to stabilize a non‐Communist Government in South Vietnam. Without repudiating U.S. commitments, he hopes to avoid new ones. He keeps out of disputes whenever he can, wary of U.S. intervention in such explosive situations the India‐Pakistan conflict and the Middle East. In short, postwar U.S. foreign policy has been turned upside down...

His approach to world politics is to see a pattern of relationships involving five major power centers: the United States, Russia, China, Japan and, eventually, Western Europe (including Britain). In this pentagonal world each power center will be constrained by the others. The President first made this vision explicit last summer in Kansas City, when he explained the passing of the cold war. “Twenty‐five years ago,” he said, “we were No. 1 in the world militarily, with no one who even challenged us, because we had a monopoly of atomic weapons. Now, 25 years having passed we see five great economic superpowers: the United States, Western Europe, the Soviet Union, China and, of Japan"...

Nixon has articulated a concert of great powers that resembles in some respects the balance of power in Europe during much of the 19th century. “We must remember,” he has said, “the only time in the history of the world that we have had any extended periods of peace is when there has been a balance of power. I think it will be a safer world and a better world if we have strong, healthy United States. Europe, Soviet Union, China, Japan — each balancing the other, not playing one against the other, an even balance.”

Don't forget printing megabucks as the US$ is reserve currency. That's an inflation tax on all other countries that need to use the petrodollar to trade. Must be nice.