site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 4, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

One of the important points this misses is that, when they don't actually have power over you, Hitler and the Nazis are funny, in the sense of ridiculous, starting from that mustache and going on down to the troops. Charlie Chaplin's "The Great Dictator" made use of this during his reign, and many have done so since. The Downfall memes and Inglourious Basterds could never be made about Stalin, for instance. The serious Stalag 13 was recast into the successful and humorous Hogan's Heroes... SCHULTZ!. Goose-stepping troops became a staple of comedy. So yeah, the Nazis are a great source of humor, and a great source of humor your opponents find it offensive to use... that's even greater.

(ETA: the KKK is ridiculous too, from the titles to the bedsheets)

Otoh, there was Death of Stalin, though it featured comparatively little of Stalin.

The relative lack of literal Stalin isn't really a strike against the comparison, since the whole plot revolved around the ruthless power struggle around who will succeed him. But Death of Stalin is notable precisely because it is so uncommon to poke fun at the communists.

There’s team america world police and the interview, featuring stalin’s premier fan family.

And even when it did it treated him with deadly seriousness right up until the second he died, unlike rest of the cast, the flesh lumps in waistcoats. Regardless, fantastic movie!