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Something akin to Pakistan, which is also an impoverished, US-aligned, authoritarian de facto rump state without authentic nationhood, ideologically founded on the rejection of the cultural and historical origins of her own people. In fact, Pakistan's situation is actually better in that regard, because at least religiously they are markedly different from India.
Or look at a similar country, El Salvador, which was a US-backed military dictatorship torn asunder in a lengthy civil war. After everything was destroyed and shot to pieces, the generals responsible for it all moved to Miami, where they went on to live comfortable lives as rich pensioners.
Does this mean eventually Ukraine will elect a Nayyiyyb Bukyyeyyle, who will rocket their safety and standards of living upwards through a revolutionary policy of incarcerating criminals?
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What the hell does this even mean? At this point Ukrainian nationhood certainly looks more authentic to me than whatever hodgepodge the Russian government has cooked up from the various conflicting and strategically applied parts of Russian history from the empire to Soviet times to the 90s.
To illustrate the difference, the Halychynan/Galician people indeed have a distinct national character different from the Russian. But Galicia does not equal the entire Ukrainian state, the very name of which simply denotes ‘borderland’, a geographical region, and not a nation. Any argument I’ve encountered from Ukrainian nationalists put forth as evidence of their authentic nationhood strikes me as retconning, LARPing or just fantasy. I cannot take seriously the notion that Ukrainians are the true descendants of Vikings / ancient Slavs / noble Cossacks warriors /whatever, also devoted supporters of LMBTQ rights, liberal democracy and White European unity, whereas the Moskal are a tartarized/turkized Ingrian horde. This is as fantastical as Pakistanis posturing as true Muslims and thus claiming to be a real nation as a result.
The current Western propaganda war regarding the Ukraine would sort of make sense if NATO and the EU were composed of white nationalist ethnostates. But the opposite is true, which makes the whole thing a gigantic farce.
So? It's hardly the only state/nation whose name comes from a geographical designation - I mean, "Netherlands"? "Austria" ("Eastern Realm"?) "Norway" (most popular theory still is that comes from "North Way"?)
Is that any more ridiculous than Russia simultaneously being the descendant of Rus states (totally an unified entity and the Rus also were totally Slavs and not Vikings) and the defender of Christendom in the way of the Czar and also the descendants of the glorious Red Army on an antifascist crusade?
I would consider it this way - the history of Europe shows that when different regions spend long times under different rulers, they tend to develop different consciousness by default. Why are Czechs and Slovaks two nations, even though everyone acknowledges they basically speak the same language and were a part of the same country until 1991? Because one spent centuries under German and one under Hungarian rule, basically.
The same way, at the very least large parts of Ukraine were under Polish/Lithuanian rule while others were under the Duchy of Moscow/Czardom of Russia, while much of the rest was under neither but under the various remnants of the Golden Horde (Crimean Khanate etc.) and was settled by Slavs only later on. While Russia later took most of those areas, evidently at least enough national consciousness remained for Ukrainians to vote for those advocating Ukrainian nationhood at least in some form in the Constituent Assembly elections of 1917, something I've never quite seen any Russians stating that Russians and Ukrainians were unquestionably one nation at that era to explain.
The Western stance is based on preserving the postwar norms like non-annexation - nothing in the Western stance really demands a white nationalist ethnostate, and I do not see why it would do so.
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Why not Vietnam, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Thailand, etc.? Why did you choose those two examples from a long list?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars
Russia is directly involved in the conflict, so strictly speaking it cannot be called a proxy war. If we really stretch the definition, the Indo-Pakistani conflicts may be called American-Soviet proxy wars (unlike, say, the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, which meets the definition perfectly).
In Japan or Thailand there was no such internal conflict and no foreign intervention, between the two German states there was never a war, so I wouldn’t count those.
Korea offers a better parallel, with the huge caveat that US troops have been stationed in the South from the beginning, so again, calling it a proxy war is quite stretching it.
South Vietnam, on the other hand, indeed is a good parallel. However, I wouldn’t say we’ll ever reach a point in the near future where US military aid to the Ukraine will be completely cut.
But anyway, it’s not the proxy war aspect that I had in mind.
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