site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 18, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The daycare situation is a perfect example of what is wrong with Canada. The government got involved by subsidizing demand and restricting supply, so it all became worse. When the subsidy program was created, the conditions to receive the subsidy for the daycares entailed capping employee compensation. Demand exploded because prices fell by half and then half again, but supply was constrained by labour availability so much that today there are 15% fewer daycare spots than in 2019. So it is as you say, a windfall if you get a spot, but much worse than before if you can't. Statscan had a report in 2022 which admittedly was still a Pandemic year that 8% of kids aged 0-5 were waiting for a spot to open. Thats 200,000+ kids.

The government got involved by subsidizing demand

This is why I'm so suspicious of technocrats. They consistently do this.

Technocrats don't want to subsidise demand, they'd rather increase supply but the populists ensure we get demand subsidies instead.

Okay, they don't want to, but they keep doing it. What good are a bunch of technocrats if they just implement populist policies? At this point the (commonly regarded as) most thoughtful and informed would-be American technocrats are proposing wealth taxes. Warren wants to crack down on landlords not renewing leases, etc.

"There's a fire, help!"

"Quick, pour gasoline on it!"

What good are a bunch of technocrats if they just implement populist policies?

Mostly technocrats just don't get to decide policy. Positions like the Fed Chair are a rare exception. Mostly they advise and execute on behalf of politicians, who frequently ignore them because their advise is probably unpopular or operates over a time horizon that makes it undesirable to elected officials (nobody wants to implement a policy that loses them the election and that their successor gets to take credit for). The usual failing of technocrats is either than they're operating outside their subject matter expertise (see: the Soviet Union, where it turned out that engineers don't make particularly good political/economic leadership) or they're prone to galaxy-brained schemes due to overconfidence in their understanding (half the thesis of Seeing Like a State).

Warren isn't a technocrat. I'd be hard pressed to name a single elected official in the US who could be characterized as such. The technocrats are proposing things like carbon taxes, land value taxes, zoning and permitting reform, etc... And mostly getting ignored because these are unpopular.

I think Warren is a technocrat, just not one whose ideas are straightforwardly aimed at middle/working class standard of living increases; she wants to use government policy as a tool of social engineering for the kinds of things that an upper middle class Massachusetts progressive normie thinks people should be doing anyways and is disguising herself as a Bernie-style left wing populist.

See, I think this is reversed. Warren likes to adopt a professorial persona (maybe calling it a persona is unfair, given she actually has been a professor), but she is really just a lawyer (like most Members of Congress) and dresses up eat-the-rich populism in wonky clothes for the benefit of pseudointellectual liberals. Somewhat famously, she got Saez and Zucman (a pair of noted left-wing economists) to write up policy proposals for her campaign and then proceeded to ignore them when their recommendations weren't spicy enough for the audience she was courting.

Maybe we're using the world technocrat differently; to me "wants to use government policy as a tool of social engineering" isn't a distinguishing element. That could refer to almost any politician. My understanding of the term technocrat implies that they hold their position by dint of at least notional subject matter expertise. Supreme Court Justices are pretty much inherently technocrats, as is the Fed Chair. Conversely, I'm almost tempted to say an elected official can't be a technocrat, but that might be a bit too far. Nevertheless, it's rare (and even more unlikely in the specific context of Congress). It's just not how politicians win elections.

My understanding of the term technocrat implies that they hold their position by dint of at least notional subject matter expertise.

She is literally a Harvard professor?

Harvard professor of law is not a position with governmental authority (or even an advisory position) and also [insert dig at law professors here]. You could call, e.g. Larry Summer a (retired) technocrat. Not because he's an econ professor at Harvard, but because he's held governmental positions (Treasury, CEA) and was at least notionally selected for his expertise.

edit: I'm not really trying to convince you to adopt this definition of 'technocrat', just trying to lay out what I mean.