This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I came across today a movie trailer today which is/was The American Society of Magical Negroes. It really showed me how much the elite black class is grifting. The story apparently revolves around black people using magical powers to keep white people from chimping out and attacking black people. I'm not going to sit here and say black don't have grievances in America and against whites, but I don't think this whole type of thinking helps blacks. It makes it clear to me (and many other instances obviously) that the black elite and black academics define themselves against whiteness. Like they can't imagine blackness without white people in America. An America with no racism against blacks isn't possible to them, and the DEI and all that kind of stuff is necessary to keep them safe. This leaves many kinds of positions for more or less grifting that are basically only open to blacks and leave them a position to cry about racism and also benefit from it handsomely in terms of salary.
Working in Silicon Valley has given me the opportunity to work with a bunch of Nigerians that make insane salaries and live luxurious lifestyles. One thing I've noticed from them is that they don't think about the black/white distinction the same way. At my current company, the director of security is a Nigerian and half of the staff is Nigerian. Obviously they are hiring their own ethnics at a preferable rate, but I haven't seen one of them be part of the "Black at XYZ Company" groups or really care about that. They actually seem to be pretty happy with the current state of affairs in the US an have integrated pretty well.
I'm going to sound like a boomer conservative here, but it seems to me black elites in America seem obsessed with keeping the race divide front and center and their bloated salaries are a direct benefit to them. I don't think that black performance or lack thereof has anything to do with racism. I've never met a single normie person that is anti-black and hates them. I myself am pretty racist and HBD minded and I don't hate blacks at all. I find ghetto criminal blacks to be a nuisance and I don't like that, but even I would have to admit the vast majority of blacks are just normal people who want to live their lives and be happy. When I lived in Chicago, other than a few really unsafe areas I didn't mind walking around majority black neighborhoods.
It seems to me that there is an elite black class that was raised on the Civil Rights movement that can't move on. Their world view of racism is hopelessly outdated and most people would be fine hiring blacks and living near them. However, as currently constructed there is an elite black class that wants the status quo because they benefit from it Being a civil rights activist and a socila justice advocate is beneficial for these people instead of telling blacks they can succeed or fail on their own merits and to just be normal Americans.
Yup. It's uncomfortable for either side to admit this, but wokism is a Western value.
The Greeks were not woke. The Romans were not woke. The Franks were not woke, nor the French, English, German or Spanish empires. Nobody was plausibly woke up until around 200 years ago and even then they were very dissimilar to modern wokists.
And those societies have basically nothing to do memetically with the modern west, those places are dead and buried now, no different to how Akkad has nothing to do with modern Iraq.
There are fasces in the US Senate Chamber. The US is a republic, some consider it a democracy. Where do you think these words come from?
I'll keep going. We have the Latin alphabet. Roman numerals are still taught in schools. Classical architecture. The Julian calendar. Half the world uses civil law derived from Rome, Anglos use common law from England. We talk about legions, Caesars, Platonic ideals, de facto vs de jure, e pluribus unum, the Olympics, Nike, Achille's heel, Odysseys...
There's a hell of a lot more continuity from Greece and Rome to us than Akkad to Iraq. The Chinese go on about their 4000 years of history (with very little to show for the first 1000 years or so), we have at least 2500 years. We are capable of far more than this present malaise.
And everything you mention was adopted by the modern West well before progressive wokism came and took over everything. The modern west was given these things as a gift from the past, not as something it choose for itself from a bunch of options after considering the pros and cons.
The Modern Progressivism which rules the roost in the West is its own beast, it is Western only to the extent that it was born in the West and naturally some of the norms prevalent in the area rubbed off on it, it is no more Western than it would have been Chinese if it emerged in China nstead of the First World and spread to everywhere else from there.
There is a saying that Singapore is the only country that learned the correct lessons from the British Empire. Western history includes all of the things you mentioned, but the modern west has lost the Mandate of Heaven that was given to Leonidas, Pericles, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Octavian, Marcus Aurelius, Justinian, Charlemagne, Otto, Andrea Doria, Napoleon, Bizmarck and Disraeli. That mandate is now accorded to us, to the elite immigrants who were raised and imbued with the same memeplex that gave rise to western Greatness in the first place and which the modern west has willingly and of its own accord repudated.
You are right that eventually what made the West great will come back to power, but its champions will not be the pale skinned whites who came to reject and squander the gift they had but rather people darker in complexion yet just as steadfast and principled as the greats of the days of yore.
Much like the Jews in the time of Christ, you have twisted the teachings you were given and shirked your responsibilities, instead becoming venal and corrupt. You are no longer the chosen people. And just like how Christ drove the money changers from the temple, we too will drive you out and restore the West to its former glory.
How can you say that when you’ve already failed at colonizing your own country while on easy mode?
Your fantasies are entirely dependant on the fertile ground that exists in the west.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link