site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 1, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I have a new post up on my Substack today, which is expanded from a comment I wrote replying to @FarNearEverywhere's comment (for which they won one of their whopping five AAQCs for December - congrats!).

Why do I find the premise of this novel so risible? It’s not just that the possibility of the Irish far-right seizing power and transforming the country into a fascist dystopia is so laughably remote as to be almost fantastical - if it’s a “warning”, then it’s of about as much use as a warning about a Dáil made up of a coalition of pixies and unicorns. It’s not just that, like most successful Irish writers of the last decade, [Paul] Lynch is clearly something of an East Yank whose political concerns were imported wholesale from across the pond - I would find this novel’s premise exactly as contrived and indigestible were it set in the US or Canada (for reasons I’ll get into shortly). No - it’s that Lynch is writing about a hypothetical authoritarian Ireland brought into being by a far-right administration, while ignoring the warning signs of actual democratic backsliding and authoritarianism ringing loudly in his ears every day.

...

“Freezing the bank accounts of anyone even suspected of having donated to a political cause you dislike, without ever arresting them or charging them with a crime” is the kind of behaviour we’d rightly expect from a Central African dictator. But it wasn’t a far-right Canadian prime minister who did such a thing - it was the genocide-apologising, knee-taking Justin Trudeau, who attends Pride parades and offered the smarmy explanation “because it’s 2015” for his decision to appoint a gender-balanced cabinet. Trudeau is living proof, if any were required, that there’s no conflict between a socially progressive worldview and repressive, dictatorial tactics straight out of the Erdoğan playbook - the iron fist in the rainbow glove.

"Leftists are the real authoritarians" plays about as well as "Democrats are the real racists". It is axiomatic that the right is authoritarian and the left is fighting against that.

The thing about that novel is, that the recent expansion of police powers and giving them extra equipment, plus the public sentiment starting to crystallise around cracking down on 'hate speech' and thus giving the government more remit for censorship (even if it's not phrased that way) is happening under a slightly right-of-centre economically but liberal and very social progressive otherwise government, not the stereotypical GOP administration as would be the case for such a novel in the USA.

Leftists can be authoritarian too, see Cuba for instance (if the examples of the Soviet Union and China are going to be No True Scotsmanned as not really being left, or not really being authoritarian) or indeed the Sandinistas in Nicaragua and The Shining Path in Peru.

The mainstream left is generally sympathetic to Cuba ("Look how great their health care is, shame on the US for not having single payer") and was sympathetic to the Sandinistas (if only because Reagan opposed them).

I’ve always been blown away by the obsession with health care. Does the average person spend more than a few days interacting with health care pa?

It's about a fifth of the US economy, if you're insured it involves monthly payments that will make up a significant portion of your paycheck or be significant deductions from it, if you're uninsured and poor you get regular paperwork from Medicaid that you have to fill or correctly or can end up in deep shit, and the reimbursement and deduction system drives a lot of other (often dumber) behaviors.

And if you have a pregnancy, or a serious illness, or a chronic illness, it gets a lot more in-your-face.

Yeah I guess the monthly payments are a pain in the ass. But so is FICA or Fed Income Tax, etc.

My wife and I have kids. Her heath care during pregnancy was fine. Wasn’t enough to orient our life around health care as a topic.

But assuming you fit the demographics of the average Motte reader, you likely have good to very good insurance no? That puts you in the upper bracket. How much did you end up paying for your wife's pregnancy care? How long did it take you to pay that off? Had she had to have been rushed to an out of network hospital, how would that have impacted your finances? What if her doctor was in network but the lab her doctor used was not?

I moved from the UK to the US so I have experienced both healthcare systems as an adult, and they both have their advantages and disadvantages, but the US one definitely requires more engagement, which isn't necessarily bad, but the more issues you have with executive function and planning the worse it gets. I can get a good chunk off my premiums by getting a yearly physical and then a yearly biometrics test, and by getting a prostate exam and by getting a dental exam and so on and so forth. For a planner like me with experience working through bureaucracies that works pretty well (though even for me the inability to know if a recent colonoscopy was going to be coded as routine or diagnostic in advance and therefore not knowing if was going to be out of pocket for around 600 dollars or 6,000 was literally a pain in the ass).

Treatment in the US is usually good and quicker than the NHS (though in rural or urban areas it can be comparable, it took me 6 months to get in with my PCP when I moved to a small town in the US, and it looks close to that now I have moved back to the city), but it does require much more engagement and does give you much more uncertainty about what is exactly going to be paid for or not. On balance I would say it is probably better, but it is also more stressful. It took 3 months before I knew for sure my bill was going to be 700 bucks, not 6,000.

We have an HSA. Just set up payment plan and used that. It didn’t impact our finances in any noticeable way.

More comments

I think it's mostly a way to score points against the US and praise the European social democracies (+Canada) that leftists in the US tend to idealize.