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I like Freddie, and I know he's solidly in a liberal to progressive milieu of who he grew up with, went to school, got jobs, is friends with, and so on.
But this one has a really defensive tone to me, rather than his usual way of making an argument.
The bathroom argument is so damn ridiculous on every side. My default opinion on this was "I don't care, there's no way I'm going to be looking into your knickers and so long as you just use the bathroom because you need to go to the loo, no skin off my nose".
But I am being made to care, because first it was that trans people would literally die you bigot if they couldn't use the right bathroom, and now if he's going to go all "Why do you care what bathroom someone uses?" on me, then I'm punting it back at him: why is it such a big deal for trans people to use the "gender I identify with" bathroom, then? If nobody is going to be protected from assault whether or not there are laws about "only biological men here, biological women there" then, uh, neither are trans people going to be protected from assault if there are laws about "any gender can use this bathroom". But we absolutely gotta get the second set of laws, because, well, we gotta.
What 'any gender can use this bathroom' does is make it easier for creepy people to take advantage. And yes, Freddie, there are creepy people out there. All the "you conservatives are only scaremongering, that thing you are whipping up outrage about will never happen!" scolding sounds a lot less convincing when there are cases like the "I'm a real woman and I can prove it by getting two women pregnant while I'm in the women's prison" guy. And there are cases like that, it's not an isolated incident, and they happen precisely because of the "gotta give the trans people legal protection and legal rights" rush, which is then abused by the creepy, the predatory, and the grifters.
This gestures at a particular kind of leftist argumentation that I find especially annoying, the "this isn't a big deal" argument.
Frequently leftists will bemoan their enemies for spending time on culture war topics when there are "real issues" to be contended with, decrying the culture war as a "fabricated distraction" that "doesn't matter to anyone".
Okay. Lose then. Concede. Instantly and completely. If it truly doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter if you win or not, right? Then just concede, and the meaningless distraction argument is immediately over and done with and we can refocus on the "real issues".
It's the same way that we all need to use whatever pronouns are demanded of us because "it's not a big deal". If it's not a big deal then why do I need to change anything? If it's not any of my business what pronouns people use, then why are you asking me to care?
I originally saw this construction in the form of; "If the character's race doesn't matter, why not make the character black?" countered with "If the character's race doesn't matter, why make the character black?"
I think you've misunderstood the "this isn't a big deal" argument.
The claim is that it isn't a big deal for you (the person opposed to whatever relevant agenda being pushed) to go along with it, but that the issue is important for the purported victim group.
For example - the pronoun case.
The progressive believes that if you don't respect trans people's pronouns, it will be traumatic to them, as you reject a fundamental part of their identity, and hence invalidate them as an individual - it's a form of violence (this manifests through, amongst other things, trans people actually killing themselves).
On the other hand if you just called her "she", despite not actually believing in the underlying philosophical framework of gender identity you um... oh wait, it doesn't cost you anything actually! (We all say things we don't believe in from time to time, that's called politeness)
It's basically the same idea as "it's impossible to be neutral in the face of oppression". One side is merely asking to be able to exist (see slogans like "trans genocide", "BLM", etc) whilst the other is not in any real danger: they're just edgy teens, ignorant bigots, and pearl-clutching church ladies.
Yeah, everyone misses the vital "it's costless for the oppressor, but infinitely beneficial/costly for the oppressed" framing used to get a foot in the door. It seamlessly transitions to "ok it's costly for the oppressor, but hurting them is actually good", but the initial push always relies on the "simple politeless reducing social friction" argument.
I'm not sure anyone's found a way to argue against it yet, and it's always too late once the rule is established.
"It's not costless to me, compelled speech is my one issue"
That's a valid rebuttal.
But I think most progressives genuinely struggle to believe people feel so strongly about free speech/compelled speech. I think this also contributes to them distrusting liberals who oppose the trans agenda - to them it sounds like you're just making up excuses to hurt people's feelings.
As I've drifted away from progressivism, I have come to believe that some people really do feel a deep level of discomfort and "ickiness" from being forced to say something they don't believe is true to avoid punishment - from observing non-woke people in real life and reading forums like this.
But personally I really don't think I can relate. I've read the stirring prose explaining how it's every man's natural right to be able to speak his own truth, etc. But I just don't feel it.
When I call a trans person their preferred pronoun, I'm not an emasculated liar, at least not any more than everyone else who is alive today and not part of some remote uncontacted tribe: whether you like it or not, you are totally controlled by society.
If the government says tomorrow that we have to eat bugs and live in a pod, there's actually nothing you or I could do about it (either we comply, or there's an escalating series of negative incentives that culminate in death) - the only reason we don't have to do that is because society doesn't want us to do that right now.
All of our freedoms are privileges that the establishment grants us - whilst morally you could argue X is a right, in practice, the government can take X away if they want to, and believe it won't lead to a revolt.
My question to you, and to anyone else that sees the compelled speech thing as a genuine issue - why do you feel this way? Why is this such a big issue for you? Can't you just tell people, who've made it abundantly clear they aren't interested in hearing your actual opinion, what they want to hear?
...Uh, that's, um... a pretty big difference in perspective right there, for sure.
What's your feelings about this quote:
Bolding for emphasis. Does that just read as empty rhetorical flourishes to you? Does it seem too old and out-of-context to be relevant?
Because government derives inextricably from consent of the governed, and rulers losing sight of that, and people allowing them to, is very, very dangerous for everyone involved. Society is innately cooperative; compulsion, whether of word or thought or action breaks that cooperation. Some compulsion is always necessary, but there comes a point where it's too much, against too many, and at that point society ruptures. Maintaining society means maintaining the peace and cooperation, and keeping the compulsion strictly limited. People who don't see the need to limit compulsion are like a person lighting cigarettes in the middle of a gunpowder factory: a danger to themselves and others.
Well sort of, yes (but I freely admitted that already)
They read as "empty" to me because - like all rhetoric involving "rights" - it fails to consider the part where, in the process of separate individuals living in a shared society seeking out their God-given right to Freedom, Pursuit of Happiness, Safety, etc, these "rights" come into conflict with one another.
The reason this quote (and countless others isomorphic to it) sounds so appealing is because it basically just says that the writer endorses maximising goodness in the world. To attack the weakest part - consider the phrase "pursuit of happiness", this describes literally everyone who wants something bad enough (Indeed, most trans people feel very happy when society uses their pronouns)
But to address the bold part - the fact the people have the "right" to abolish a tyrannical government is meaningless - rights, obligations, etc only make sense on the personal scale. Once we consider entire nations, in the absence of a higher power, stuff just happens, and we all have to go along with it.
In terms of emotion, it does resonate with me a bit (despite what I said above, obviously I think it's a good thing if we live in a world where people are free, and can pursue their bliss) - it presents only one side of the issue, ignoring the trade-offs (as all good propaganda does).
But I can do that with basically any issue. Since this started with progressivism, here's a pretty popular quote for leftists: "We can disagree and still love each other, unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.” - James Baldwin
I mean this sounds pretty reasonable. Baldwin is happy to have an open debate, just so long as you don't dehumanise him. And I'm sure there's no way two reasonable people will disagree as to what constitutes "dehumanisation"
Yes I agree there's a limit to how much you can mistreat people before something gives.
I even think that the trans issue could end up being an important part of a rupture. However that would be through the part where a parent has their child taken away from them for refusing to affirm their new gender and consent on the child's behalf to HRT/puberty blockers (This is an actual problem I have with the trans movement - aggrieved would be an understatement if that happened to me in the future)
But forcing us to use trans people's pronouns (and hence lie)? No, not really. Maybe people might complain about it on internet forums and amongst close friends (I have friend who finds it annoying like you do), but I don't think they'll do anything about it.
I don't believe this is a necessary compulsion, but I think in degree, it is on a similar level to the other necessary compulsions: like not walking outside naked, not being allowed to comment on someone's disfigurement, not being allowed to voice politically incorrect opinions in general, etc.
The important thing to keep in mind is that the chulthu swims to the left, preferred pronouns may feel like a new issue, but at this point in any sufficiently big organization, it is already claimed territory by the progs. As you say in the preceding paragraph, the new thing is trans kids. I don't think the millions of Americans with compelled speech in their workplace feel very strongly about it, they are fat and lazy and have very comfortable lives, but it will be interesting to see how they deal with their kids being transed.
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