This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
True. But any other English language European focused forum I can find out there is pathologically pro-EU. I know some Brussels career bureaucracy types and even they are usually much more sensible about the limitations of the EU than your average pro-EU Redditor. It would be nice to cultivate some habit of broader discussion about these subjects here.
Unfortunately looks like that. Perhaps I should slowly start checking my options for Atlantic migration as well.
Europeans in general are vastly pro-EU. While most Europeans aren't of course going to have the fervor of the most committed Europhiles, it's still generally a popular project, and the most Europhilic contigent is just the tip of the spear of a larger crowd that might gripe about EU stuff occasionally but still wouldn't dream of supporting their country's exit from the Union.
I sometimes think that Americans (the ones with actual interest in Europe) really get a lopsided view about the EU's popularity from following the debates through a British lens, where EU is actually a general subject with strong pro-EU and anti-EU camps. In the continent, the anti-EU camp is really comparably much weaker, which also shows in right-wing populist parties continously moderating their anti-EU views the closer to actual power and mass appeal they get.
I am honestly not so sure about that. I tried to do a deep dive into this subject at some point. I remember that the gist of it was that people gave quite different replies to pollsters about how much they like the EU depending on what they associate with the EU at the time of asking. Eastern Europeans may love the free travel arrangements but won’t stand for the gay stuff or African immigration. The rich northerners suddenly get quite negative about it if you remind them how much they are subsidising the lazy southerners etc.
I believe the politicians coming near power moderate their stance towards the EU primarily to avoid what happened to Syriza or Berlusconi. In practice they have much to gain from working with the EU, damned what their voters wanted, and they know they will likely get crushed otherwise.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link