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Are you in favor of open borders as a practical policy matter under our current political system which does include redistribution schemes, birthright citizenship, various employment regulations etc.? The libertarian case for open borders in a legitimate “libertarian state” makes sense to me as ultimate freedom of association, but in current year US it seems to have second-order effects that are detrimental to libertarianism given the voting tendencies of second-gen immigrants and the fact that they end up as beneficiaries of various redistribution schemes. Is it like an accelerationist point of view, where having actual de jure open borders (which seems unlikely to ever happen in reality) would quickly make redistribution schemes untenable? Or is it just that the moral/ideological importance of open borders supersedes the practical considerations for you?
Practical concerns make me more in favor of open immigration, not less in favor. The largest spending item on the federal budget is not welfare, its social security. And Social Security is a pyramid scheme paid for by young. Immigrants tend to be young and looking for work. "economic migrants" is for some reason a dirty word, when without them the federal government would be going insolvent much sooner. One of the largest forms of welfare currently and being pushed by progressives and liberals is free/cheap medical care. The people most in need of medical care are often old, so the native population, not immigrants.
Those two effects alone end up swamping all other fiscal concerns.
There is also good empirical work that voter support for welfare states tends to fall with racial and ethnic diversity. Progressives have realized this and torn out their hair in frustration over all the racism. I see the result and become far less concerned about immigration.
This is kind of what I’m getting at though- right now the status quo is that illegal immigrants have to traverse across Mexico, cross the border, and work jobs where they are paid under the table in shittier conditions than the government allows for its citizens. I and many others have problems with this, but this selects for these hardworking young people you’re referring to. I’m not sure if they end up paying into social security, but I know they don’t draw on it. So point taken there. The legal immigrants are often very smart and conscientious people who largely are a net financial benefit to the government.
But if we were to have de jure open borders, where the rights of citizenship are given to anyone who can scrounge up money for a plane ticket from around the world, you’re going to get a billion people and their old parents following them which would immediately cripple every social program and lead to massive crime and housing shortages. Do you disagree with this? If you’re suggesting some sort of permanent residency program where the immigrants are not ever given a path to citizenship or any entitlements like they have in the Middle East, I actually agree this could potentially work but I don’t consider that open borders, and I rarely see that proposal made explicit.
Regarding your last point about diversity decreasing support for welfare states, I would guess this is because the data is coming from western countries that went from being largely homogenous to having an immigrant underclass very quickly. The data also overwhelmingly shows that second-gen immigrants in the US and Europe vote for pro-welfare parties. This causes a larger share of the majority population to oppose welfare states, but if the previous majority becomes a minority I don’t know why we should expect the immigrants to stop voting for gibs
In general I think people should have the right to work and live anywhere they want. I don't believe voting, receiving government welfare, being a citizen etc is a right. So that is my conception of open borders. I don't really think of open borders as open citizenship for anyone or open welfare.
Does it count as voluntary as long as you're allowed to leave the club and its premises at any time for any reason?
With all of your stuff, sure.
What's stopping you from doing that now?
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