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Pretty much.
To the degree that IQ is measuring something real, I think that what it is measuring is something along the lines of "Academic Aptitude" or "Proclivity for symbol manipulation", and that this quality is only somewhat correlated with the ability to recognize, retain, and reason from/act upon changing information states.
Okay, so do you think that there are racial differences in IQ, but not in ability more broadly?
If so, would that suggest that different groups have different strengths, but the different abilities end up cancelling to come to something roughly even when you try to form some (obviously imperfect) measure of true, generic ability? (Not saying whether I think this is the case, just trying to see what your picture of the world involves, and it seems to me like something like that would have to follow?)
I've been led to believe that IQ is fairly broadly impactful, but I don't currently have data at hand to back me up.
I would say that I am skeptical.
I'm skeptical that whatever it is that IQ tests are testing for correlates directly with "intelligence".
I'm skeptical that "intelligence" correlates directly with individual virtue, honesty, conscientiousness, lack of criminality, leadership ability, etc...
I am also skeptical of the claim that any and all observed variations in the above can be explained purely through biology/genetics.
Subsequently I'm skeptical of the claim that if meaningful biological differences between groups exist, that the effect size of these differences outweigh the effect sizes of individual variance and/or other cultural and economic factors.
In short, I feel like the OP and his allies are stacking unfounded assumptions atop unfounded assumptions and there's really nothing more to say than that.
The charitable reading of this statement is that you're skeptical IQ tests perfectly measure what you consider intelligence. I don't think anyone would say that IQ tests are perfect and always a perfect reflection of someone's cognitive ability, but when you test large groups of people, which is the data that we're actually talking about when we talk about IQ in the HBD context, these individual-level objections don't apply. If you think there are factors beyond what an IQ test measures that matter for life outcomes then no one will disagree with you, but your skepticism of this point is sort of a nonsensical reason to be anti-HBD since since racial gaps exist on every standardized test that could reasonably called cognitive in existence, including job-specific tests like fire chief qualification exams. Also, IQ does correlate pretty well with positive life outcomes, so even if it's one of many factors (just like race in college admissions) it seems to be a pretty important factor.
That being the case, your position of basically denying there's a cognitive ability or "merit" gap (as in the people who would be hired meritocratically into cognitively demanding jobs) is untenable even if you think IQ is complete nonsense. Anti-HBDers who have any idea what they're talking about don't deny the achievement gap, they argue the causes are non-significantly genetic. Also, "correlates directly" is simply not a statistically literate thing to say.
I think it probably does (although again, the phrase "correlates directly" makes me grimace), but even if it didn't, I'm not sure what the relevance is. If IQ and other positive qualities were completely uncorrelated, we would still expect racial gaps in anything cognitively demanding. This is an argument against viewing higher IQ people as inherently better people, not for IQ or other measures of cognitive ability being useless metrics, even though the latter is the way you're trying to use it.
"purely genetics" is doing all the work here. If, say, 70% of the gap is genetic, HBDers are right. likewise with "any and all variation". Why are you committed to the achievement gap being 100% XOR 0% genetic? Also, could you commit to whether you think the achievement gap is real or not? By this I'm asking whether you think the ubiquitous racial gaps on standardized tests imply an actual difference in the desirable traits being measured like future job performance, achievement in school, and, admittedly more nebulous, cognitive ability.
This is a dumber version of Lewtonin's fallacy. When we talk about entire population groups, individual variance doesn't "outweigh" population-level effects, that's nonsensical. If you're saying that HBD being true doesn't preclude the existence of smart black people then yeah, obviously.
The cultural/economic factors part is closer to a sort-of defensible position (although I'd like to see you explain racial SAT scores separated by parental income and education level) but you ruin your own point by using the word "meaningful" before them. If meaningful biological differences between groups (that impact traits we care about) exist, HBD is correct!
I feel like the charitable reading of the statement is the plain reading of the statement. I also feel that I already gave a clear definition of what I think "intelligence" means.
I Think that the reason you're grimacing and is that I am questioning beliefs that you hold dear.
No you didn't. IQ tests can be administered by anyone. Hlynka-intelligence can only be measured by Hlynka observing individual in real life setting. Nobody else here shares same idea about intelligence, not even most extreme anti-hbd.
I think I did, see; the ability to recognize, retain, and reason from/act upon changing information states.
Is this information enough for another motte user to conclude from it that median African cab driver is more intelligent than median motte user?
Yes
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