site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   26009 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 25, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Top Bottom New Old Controversial
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

https://splc.org/2016/10/an-unintended-consequence-of-title-ix/

“(The Constitution) doesn’t supersede [Title IX],” he said. “Title IX is a federal compliance policy. Those policies supersede anything else.”

https://www.usccr.gov/files/pubs/2020/02-19-Free-to-Learn.pdf

Higher education institutions that receive federal funds must take steps to address hostile environments and sex-based discrimination.10Preventing a hostile environment, in public universities, may overlap with an individual’s right of free speech or expression. The most common type of sexual harassment is often termed gender harassment. Gender harassment includes verbal and nonverbal behaviors that convey insulting and degrading attitudes about members of one gender. Examples may include lewd jokes, disrespectful comments about body parts, and inappropriate gestures

Freedom of speech went up against Title IX, and Title IX won. The only reason I can see this being any different is that it's not supported by the Biden admin.

If the government can require that a school investigate and expel a student for "misgendering," why can't they require the same for yelling "gas the jews"?

Your first quote is from some university administrator who is, obviously, wrong about how the law works. I also note none of the students in question seem to have actually sued over their punishment. They should have. I think they would have had an excellent chance. Courts do not just insert themselves in disputes to vindicate rights, someone has to ask them to. Here is a pretty good breakdown of how Title IX actually works from the congressional research service.

Freedom of speech went up against Title IX, and Title IX won. The only reason I can see this being any different is that it's not supported by the Biden admin.

There are many differences. Title XI, for example, generally requires some individual(s) be subject to discrimination or harassment. Abbott's order contains no such language.

If the government can require that a school investigate and expel a student for "misgendering," why can't they require the same for yelling "gas the jews"?

Can you give me some examples of the US government requiring a student be expelled for misgendering?

Here is a pretty good breakdown of how Title IX actually works from the congressional research service.

Your link disagrees with you and agrees that schools are required by Title IX to prevent "peer" sexual harassment.

The Supreme Court explained that in Title IX cases alleging peer harassment, a school will not be held liable unless its deliberate indifference “subjects” students to harassment. The school’s response must, “at a minimum, ‘cause students to undergo’ harassment or ‘make them liable or vulnerable’ to it.” The harassment thus must occur when the school has “substantial control” over the harasser and the context in which the misconduct occurs. For example, the standard would be satisfied if misconduct occurs on school grounds during school hours.

Where did I claim that peer harassment could not be actionable? "Harassment" can, and often does, involve more than speech.

And "being vulnerable" can, and often does, involve nothing more.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats