baby killer
"Compelled birth". Ah, the amount of new horror scare terms being dredged up by the baby-killers (you don't mind that term, do you? sauce for the goose and all that) in order to sow fear and terror is wonderfully creative, in a twisted way.
Yes, the horrible forced-birthers are lurking around, jumping out to kidnap women, tie them down to a surgical bed, do IVF on them without their consent, implant embryos in them and then wait around for nine months until they can then force their victims to deliver the baby without any anaethesia or pain relief at all.
It'd make a great B-movie.
(Because of course it's not that two people voluntarily have sex and sex makes babies and oops they were too careless in the moment and now the natural result is happening).
The Orwellian march of language is something else. Ending a human life is healthcare. Asking for normal pregnancy is forced birth/compelled birth/slavery.
FlyingLionWithABook
Has a C. S. Lewis quote for that.
1yr ago
That reminds me of the book The End of the Spear, which is in large part about the conversion of the Waodoni indians in South America to Christianity. Prior to conversion they were infamous killers: nobody entered their territory because it was well known they would probably kill you. They famously killed the missionaries who came to convert them. What's interesting is that after the missionaries were killed, their wives continued the mission. As women they were not seen as a threat and were not killed, and they managed to fairly rapidly convert the entire tribe.
Here's an excerpt from the book's introduction. Steve Saint, son of the slain missionary Nate Saint, is recounting how he and members of the Waodoni took a group of students from the University of Washington on a trip into Waodani territory. After several days travel the students are resting at a Waodani village, among some of the Waodani people when one student asks where the famously violent tribe that killed the missionaries in 50s was. When told that the Waodani were that tribe the student was incredulous:
It was apparent she wasn’t going to accept my word for it, so I suggested she ask the Waodani themselves. “Just ask any of the adult Waodani here were their fathers are,” I suggested. I told her how to say “Bito maempo ayamonoi?” which means, “Your father--Where is he being?” She seemed to wonder what this had to do with her question, but she picked out one of the Waodani men who was enjoying our English gibberish and asked him. He answered simply “Doobae.” I explained to her that the word means “Already.” His father was already dead. I added “Did he get sick and die, or did he die old?”
The warrior snorted at my ridiculous question and clarified with dramatic gestures that his father had been killed with spears.
“Did he just say what I think he said?” the girl asked. “Was his father speared to death? Who would do such a terrible thing?” I informed her that the only people I knew of in Ecuador who had speared anyone in the twentieth century were Waodani…
One of the other students picked a Waodani woman and asked her the same question. Same answer. After one more try with similar results, two girls in the group asked me to ask Mincaye’s wife, Ompodae, the question. From the whispering I overheard, I gathered that they were sure someone as loving and sweet as Ompodae couldn’t have been traumatized by something as horrible as the vicious murder of her father. But Ompodae answered, “My father, my two brothers”--She counted them on her fingers--”my mother, and my baby sister…” There seemed to be more but she stopped there. “All of them were speared to death and hacked with machetes!” Then she pointed at the oldest warrior in camp, who was quietly sharing a stump with one of the male visitors. “Furious and hating us, Dabo killed us all.”...
My feisty tribal grandmother knew what the question was, so she decided to give an answer. She told how her family had been ambushed by another clan of Waodani. When the spearing was over, only she and another girl...were left alive in their clearing. When she finished her narrative, which I hardly needed to interpret because her pantomime was as clear to the students as her words were to me, she pointed to one of the warriors I was sitting with and stated matter-of-factly, “He killed my family and made me his wife!”
One of the girls in the group stammered, “How could she possibly live with the man who had killed her whole family?” I explained that the other girl who was kidnapped with Dawa was overheard complaining about her family being speared. One of the raiders ran a spear through her, and they left her on the trail to die an agonizing death alone, with no one to even bury her body. I explained, “It wasn’t like Dawa had much of a choice.”
Their society was pretty dang violent, but they took to Christianity in a big way. They were eager for it: a way of life where you weren't constantly in fear of getting killed. The anthropologist James Boster wrote a paper about how Christianity served as a way for the Waodoni to escape the perpetual cycle of revenge killing their society had gotten locked into.
(continued from above)
This episode was enough to placate the sheep for a few days but eventually they started to desire to see Poot amongst them once again. Just like the last time they were not sure about how to do this but this desire only grew stronger until things came to a head. "BAA" went one of the sheep. Another one replied "BAA". A third one joined in "BAA". Very quickly there was a whole cacophony as each sheep joined in on the mass bleating in its own time and key. Poot once again heard the sounds and the desire to go smash things up sprouted again, for by now he automatically associated the bleating of sheep with the release he got from breaking stuff. Once again he snuck into the barn and began to go on a rampage. This time he managed to cause even more damage before James discovered what was happening and delicately extracted his son from the situation. James decided to put Poot under constant babysitter supervision to prevent such a thing from happening again.
Poot wasn't the only one who had heard the sheep. Poot's mother, Alice, had always been sensitive to noises and the bleats had given her a bad headache. She wasn't particularly happy about the situation and she had never really liked sheep, if it had been up to her they'd be growing crops instead on their land. Alice took a bunch of painkillers to help, but they had never really worked for her and it took some time before she was back to her normal self.
Of course by this point even the sheep had noticed a trend. Whenever they all bleated together it was followed by Poot making an appearance. Thus the next time they desired to see Poot they knew exactly what to do. "BAA" went one of the sheep. Another one replied "BAA". A third one joined in "BAA". Very quickly there was a whole cacophony as each sheep joined in on the mass bleating in its own time and key. Poot heard this sound and the desire to run amok swelled up in him again but under the watchful eye of the babysitter he was not able to sneak out to the barn.
The sheep though continued bleating, they were convinced at every moment that very soon Poot was about to make an entrance, just like all the previous times they had all bleated together. They continued to do this well into the small hours of the night until they were all exhausted and the next day Alice had a very bad headache indeed. The next day the sheep continued their long bleat as soon as they could muster up the energy to do so. From inside the house Poot heard them every second but his babysitter guard was ever vigilant and never gave Poot the opportunity to slip out unseen.
James was concerned that something was wrong with the sheep and naturally wanted to get it fixed as soon as possible. Before long V.E.T. made an appearance at the barn. He wore an expression of confusion and straight away got down to his pastime of manhandling the sheep. The sheep though recognised the intimidation tactic for what it was and continued with their mission. They had had enough of being maltreated, they wanted to see Poot and even the threat of sharp needles from V.E.T. wouldn’t make them stop.
True to form after a short discussion with James V.E.T. did indeed bring out the sharp needles and started poking the sheep with them. However these sharp needles were nothing like any they had ever seen before. This time very soon after a sheep had been poked it suddenly grew very tired until it no longer had any energy to continue with the bleating and fell asleep.
One by one the sheep were supressed by V.E.T. but as this was going on each and every single standing sheep redoubled their efforts, they were sure that if Poot just showed up he would take on and defeat V.E.T. and all things would be good again. At this moment Poot though couldn’t care less. His babysitter had taken him on a nature outing to see butterflys and Poot was too preoccupied with finding and squishing as many caterpillars as he could to have any concerns about the sheep.
After they had all been placated James went and searched the entire property to find the root cause behind the sheep hysteria. He had heard that sheep often cry out when there are predators nearby and wanted to make sure that they were completely safe. He was not able to find anything though, which caused much consternation as he could not think of anything else rational which would have caused the sheep to behave in the way they did.
Hoping that the problem would resolve itself when the sheep came back to he went out to fetch some more clean hay and water for them to make sure they were feeling better after a period in which they had clearly been in high stress. He then went to check on Alice who had recently been feeling very poorly given the incessant noise.
When the sheep woke up they were indeed more placated but eventually they remembered Poot and set about trying to make him show up again. "BAA" went one of the sheep. Another one replied "BAA". A third one joined in "BAA". Very quickly there was a whole cacophony as each sheep joined in on the mass bleating in its own time and key.
Alice, who had been doing her best in the kitchen trying to work with a terrible headache heard the sheep again. Very soon her head started spinning and she collapsed onto the floor.
A week after the events above James and his wife were holding a party. All was quiet around the house and Alice’s headache had pretty much subsided completely. A seed trader, Jacob, and his wife Hilaria (contrary to her name, she was not very funny) were visiting the farm to discuss the economic benefits and pitfalls of growing cotton and some of their neighbours were interested in coming along too.
Poot was upstairs in his room with the babysitter, who had been tasked with making sure he didn’t disturb the guests in any shape or form, as well as making sure he didn’t soil himself (a bad habit Poot had picked up over the last few months as a way of getting back at others when he didn’t get his way). After spending time discussing the technicalities of growing cotton and letting people mingle around a bit it was time for dinner. At the table, mutton was being served.
Tanista
2yr ago
It might be a basic human need...but is it better to be alone, or to marry and have children...only to find that your wife tried to kill one of them? Or to be with an abusive alcoholic? All of these things suck: are relationships truly the least bad option here?
Obviously most people don't go into it and get that binary choice between a potential relationship and a baby killer. You might as well ask if it's worth driving if a semi might crumple your vehicle.
And, yes, our psychology is tilted such that we are broadly driven to downplaying those risks (some of which, like matricide, are relatively small here) and driven to be less satisfied with a parlous social network. Precisely because the benefits are manifold.'
DuplexFields
Ask me how the FairTax proposal works. All four Political Compass quadrants should love it.
2yr ago
Don’t forget the other murderers in this murder conspiracy: the mothers-to-not-be. Murderers who in most cases don’t consider themselves such. Women told by their society that ridding themselves of this clump of cells and ending the nine-month insane transformation early is their science-given right and is a good and noble thing they do. Do they deserve a bullet in their heads too? Oh wait, that would kill the baby. Keep her locked up and force-fed vitamins, then seize her child as soon as it’s born and execute her? What a nightmare! (But she deserves it, she was going to slaughter her child in cold blood…)
And what of the police? A hail of gunfire for the would-be rescuer would only be the beginning. Politicians anywhere to the right of Hillary Clinton will be subject to immediate, intense demands that they publicly denounce such vile, vicious acts of terrorism. Anyone who didn’t would be subject to more intense media demonization than even Donald Trump was.
The women in the clinic would be treated as the victims of something worse than rape: right-wing extremism. They would be flown at taxpayer expense to another abortion clinic in the lap of luxury, where their children would die anyway.
So it would take an intense nation-wide effort, organized by militias and timed to occur on a specific day and time. One whiff of such an operation, and the FBI would come down on them harder than Hunter S. Thompson going cold turkey. And if it was pulled off, the screaming and anguish of feminists would be unbearable.
And all of that might, might be worth it to save children being slaughtered at the rate of one 9/11 every two days. But the souls of the women and doctors and moderates would forever be lost, because by their modern liberal standards and the mutated hearsay cultural ideas of Christian doctrine, only a false religion kills in the name of its god, only a false religion has to kill. And the irony is they’d actually be right this time.
Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Murdering the flesh and spilling the blood of the babykillers would only feed the rulers of the darkness of the world, and tighten their grip. That’s not Effective Heroism.
Instead, pregnancy crisis centers which don’t pull dirty tricks offer life to children and salvation to their mothers, according to their consciences and free wills. You can tell they’re effective because “Jane’s Revenge” is targeting them specifically for destruction, and the left’s best weapons for community change, the media, are castigating them for their existence.
HlynkaCG
old man yelling at clouds
2yr ago
I'm sorry, but reading this my first thought is (as another put it) "just calling someone baby-killer with extra steps".
My second thought is that this argument has a very "checkmate atheists" type vibe to it that having been one of those guys in a previous life just feels really juvenile to me now.
You say "we are losing", but I am skeptical. It certainly doesn't feel like we are losing.
I'm skeptical of this because I rarely see anyone extend such charity to an actual baby killer (ie a mother who smothers her newborn). No matter how vulnerable of a situation she was in.
It might not be intentional deception though. Someone else made a point that the abortion debate is complicated enough that most people simply can't grok the nuances enough to even have a well thought out position.
Walterodim
Only equals speak the truth, that’s my thought on’t
2yr ago
This feels like it's just calling someone a baby killer with extra steps. I don't see how this would be more persuasive for people that already think abortion is baby killing than just straightforwardly saying that it's killing a baby. Likewise, it's obviously not going to persuade very many pro-choicers because they have already demonstrated that they're not buying the baby killing claim.
I mean, I only whipped out the phrase in question because people here keep calling pro-choice people baby killers, so I thought some nice harmless hyperbole would be fun.
And you can really argue with it either. The woman in question wishes to abort the fetus; anti abortionists wish she would not. She is a baby killer, they want to force her to give birth. It is what it is.
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