FruitfulLemonyLemons
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User ID: 370
I don't have a take. I have issues and I'm tired of them.
I'll say this. Jung tends to be misunderstood IMO in the sense that he gets lumped in with mystics, and while he is something of a mystic he's actually really big on living in the external world, and the whole inner journey thing is only a thing you do when you have no choice and it's dangerous because you can get "stuck down there", i.e. so in love with your introversion that you get separated from reality and become increasingly useless even as you become so captivated and bedazzled by "insights" and imagine yourself to be specially favored by the higher powers.
Jung seems to be a proponent of "getting over yourself" and taking the slings and arrows of living as a person among the other people. When you do find yourself on the journey, he seems to be a proponent of caution, of a skeptical attitude toward the stuff you're being "blessed" with, of staying at all times connected with anything that keeps you connected to the real world (elsewhere, I think in his autobiography, he mentions that when he had his famous "encounter with the unconscious" he used his duties to his practice and to his children to keep him grounded in the external world), and of getting the fuck out of there once you find the thing you're looking for.
"Mommy issues" is not a term he uses in this book per se, but he talks extensively about the regressive longing for the warmth and protection of the womb and how dangerous this can be for an adult, and it made me think of my own cowardice, my tendency to want to be some sort of exception, my unwillingness to face the simple facts of my own external life such as my isolation and near-friendlessness and my unwillingness to do basic common sense things about these like taking up a hobby (Jung is big on common sense solutions and like being a normal fucking functional person in society, again very misunderstood guy). It's been a surprisingly effective wake-up call for me since there are few voices these days I'm actually willing to listen to but his is one of them for some reason.
Here's a fun quotation I just read from the book:
In reality the neurosis is manufactured anew every day, with the help of a false attitude that consists in the neurotic’s thinking and feeling as he does and justifying it by his theory of neurosis.
My theory of neurosis has been bad for me nooooo 😭😭😭
Symbols of Transformation by Carl Jung
If you like to read pages upon pages of "And in this culture they have..." to prove an archetype exists (I don't) then this is the book for you.
Nevertheless I have been trudging through it because interspersed throughout there are tidbits of information essentially about mommy issues (which I would say I and a significant portion of modern men have) so it feels like this weird job of like panning for gold or finding a needle in a haystack or whatever.
Worth it but it's been a slog. Can't wait to be finished.
Wow. Kudos to SS
Alternatively, tweets can represent a person's tribal knee-jerk sympathies while their long thought-out works represent having done the hard work to transcend these. In which case there would be a sort of veritas in both, but a different type of veritas in each and arguably a higher quality one in the effort work.
Yeah I get more Kantian by the day if only because it takes too many freakin clock cycles to manage all the noble lies
Suppose communism is bad (if you think it's good this isn't addressed to you but sure feel free to chime in). How do you teach normies this?
I mean the kind of normie who lives in a world where powers far beyond them do incomprehensible things like set the prices of stuff in the store, so that some of the stuff they really want is too expensive for them, but look, the store is full of that stuff, so somebody has all this stuff but they're not letting them have it except for way too high a price, those greedy assholes.
And then you try to explain to them how markets work and how prices come to be and it all just comes across to them as some weird bootlicking apologism because they're simply not on that level.
Is there a more "down to earth" approach that is needed? Normies who have deeply internalized rules of decency and ideas of "thou shalt not steal" (often normies with religious backgrounds) seem to naturally be anti-communist.
Now I'm sure some of y'all here (you know who you are) will say these people basically just need to be oppressed because if they have their way civilization is destroyed and everything is shitty for everybody, but if you oppress them then they complain but otherwise you have a civilization that hums along. But I hate this, I feel like there has to be a way to make society work that doesn't require telling a huge segment of the population "stfu and get in line or we're putting you in a cage". And I mean obviously violent (as needed) enforcement of civilized norms is necessary, but I notice there are a lot more people who are sympathetic to communist ideas than are actual active criminals. My point is more about these people, not the active criminals (who I support putting in cages)
Is there really no way to get through to people other than to just tell them shut up and take it because we're trying to run a civilization here
The answer is apparently as simple as the fact that she's 60 and lucid rather than 80 and comatose
and she's not Trump. Don't forget who this election's really about. This is the elation of "oh shit we can win" that followed the desperation after Biden's debate performance. I honestly think this is explained by fairly standard human emotional dynamics.
Of course the emotions get narrativized, but that's just what humans do unless (and often still when) they have uncommonly large amounts of self-honesty
Yes, thank you for the detailed reply
Do you know anything about healthcare systems in other parts of the world? Would you recommend medical tourism to anywhere?
If it's any consolation, I'm sure right-leaning students handle this the way we always have: go through the motions, then make fun of it all behind their backs when we're hanging out on our own time.
But it is worrying. What separated us from the Soviets during the Cold War was you didn't have to be an activist to do things like medicine.
You also wouldn't want to acknowledge views that are actually something a reasonable person might think if you are invested in believing your opponents are dangerous extremists (or I guess just weirdos is the talking point now).
I first noticed this in the 2018 midterms when Google autocomplete suppressed the JobsNotMobs hashtag. If there's something nefarious going on it's been flying under the radar for a long, long time. Took Elon et al to start complaining before it got generally noticed.
Sounds like they were visualizing some papal ass shit where they all meet in a closed room and then when smoke comes out the top we know we have a new President.
Would be kinda cool tbh
Amazing what happens when a bunch of young men come home with military discipline having been drilled into them. If only that didn't require, well you know
I wonder if DEI is sometimes a scapegoat for a general slackening of standards and lessening of giving a F.
But then you have to ask what caused that slackening.
You could bring DEI back into the conversation and say that the need to deny that there is anything wrong with preferring "DEI hires" requires everyone to lower their standards so as not to make it too obvious what's going on.
This feels like there might be something to it but I could caution against taking up such a narrative too quickly. There are other options, such as mass affluence leading to a general slackening.
It's worth asking oneself, "How have I been part of the problem?" Did I prefer professors who "curved" my grades? Etc.
DEI is pernicious but it need not be the explanation for all observed incompetence.
I would probably agree with you, though certain things that muddy the meaning of language make my blood boil (like "literally").
Ha, yeah that and "exponentially" for me.
But I recently discovered that "infinitely" has been used in older writings to mean something like "it never seems to end" or "I can't count it" so I stopped being mad at people who use that in a non-mathematical sense.
Not to sound like a silly fence sitter but to me this is obviously one of those "it takes both types" things.
Obviously language evolves or we'd all be speaking Proto-Indo-European or whatever came before that.
Obviously people need to be taught the right and wrong way to use the present language or it would be impossible to communicate.
Some people are inclined to push the boundaries of meaning and those people will never give a fuck when you tell them they used a word wrong.
Other people are inclined to feel indignant about every improper usage and those people will be teachers creating smart, sharp, well-spoken citizens.
The language will drift regardless.
- Excitatory and inhibitory neurons
- Liberals and conservatives
- The thrust from the bowstring and the drag from the fletching
- Descriptivists and prescriptivists
idk it all seems necessary
Yeah this becoming a Big Issue in the summer of election year is right on time. Very hard to even want to talk about it. Are we gonna actually fix this at the national level or not? What's the specific policy proposal? Why hasn't it been implemented or at least proposed in Congress in 4 years of Democrat rule? Etc etc.
My contempt toward the use of this event as a political strategy threatens to overshadow my raw spontaneous personal feelings about the event itself, which is a shame.
👍
Yeah I'm down with this. There should be consequences, consistently applied, for mob participation, that's the only way this stuff doesn't keep escalating.
Of course first there needs to be some kind of cultural truce (like that of the wars of religion on which the First Amendment is based) that brings back actual rule of law and gets rid of all the exceptions and strategic redefinitions of words ("violence" and "racism" come to mind) etc etc
And part was fueled by this having taken place after Smollett and Whitmer and Covington and Fine People and whatever other media hoaxes I'm forgetting. The right had been in too exhausted a wolf-has-been-cried-way-too-many-times state for "this is actually real and bad" to even be in their top 5 possibilities of what's going on
LoTT has been going absolutely scorched earth, and in the heat of the moment it pleased me in the spirit of "the left is getting a taste of their cancel culture medicine". Then had a moment of shame that I've been cheering collective punishment: I have zero evidence that any given person who locker-room-talks "too bad he missed" has had any involvement whatsoever in destroying people's lives over the past 8 years.
So it's back to being liberal about speech. Back to Voltaire/Hall for me.
don a red hat
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I know this is more of a "small scale question" and not exactly "fun" but it's also relatively time-sensitive and I want to pick this community's brain in particular (EA people might have thought this stuff through, etc): does anybody know the most bang-for-your-buck way to donate to relief efforts from Hurricane Helene? Any efficient charities that are trustworthy and have good scale and minimal grift/overhead?
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