thejdizzler
2d ago
I brought this exact point up with a friend: what exactly does Shallan add to this book? Yes she is apparently important to later books, but you could introduce her then with all her chapters!
thejdizzler
2d ago
I think social gaming is great! Just didn't do much of it in high school.
thejdizzler
2d ago
Spoilers! Is not in the first book, but I had been told as much by friends.
thejdizzler
3d ago
I’m starting to think screen time north of 3-4 hours a day is really not good for me. Spent most of the day at work yesterday on my computer and most of the evening as well. Felt like shit this morning (anxious, low HRV) and didn’t sleep well.
Maybe helps explain why I got so much faster senior year of highschool re:running. I stopped gaming and drastically cut down my social media time. Iron supplements probably helped too, but I’m coming round to better recovery from less screens as a factor too.
thejdizzler
4d ago
I didn’t feel like I was particularly sneery in my review, but YMMV. To address your points
- My Spanish is good, and I don’t think this affected my read of the book other than some confusion as to proper nouns.
- The flora and fauna of Roshar was one of the things I enjoyed about the world building. However, like the rest of this stuff, most of it is cosmetic. The chasmfiends of course are quite important to the plot (although WTF do they eat usually when there’s not a war going on), and the chulls and axehounds are used in interesting ways. But the food that the Aleshi eat is almost exactly the same as in our world and they still have horse that are nearly identical to our own. As for the high storm damage, again what I criticized was not the fact that the Aleshi armies are safe, but that the stragglers who are hanging on to the armies don’t experience more damage. The ability of soulcasters to make such strong structures also undermines how important a city like Karbranth actually is. The point about agriculture still stands.
- I’m not sure that’s my interpretation of Jasnah’s assassination attempt. Officially the guy who did it is not claimed by the faith, which maybe stretches credibility, but also suggests at least that atheism is tolerated at a level where the church can’t act with impunity. It’s also not clear to me that such an assignation attempt would have even occurred if they didn’t want to steal Jasnah’s soulcaster (which, jokes on them, wouldn’t have worked). All we have from backstory so far are Dalinar’s visions about the Knights Radiant, the last of which contained the almighty himself. No religious wars, at least yet.
- I don’t mind the safe hand as an arbitrary cultural practice/fashion choice. Reading (and to a lesser extent the spice level differences) were what bothered me. You can have arbitrary cultural traits, but once they start affecting the “fitness” of your society, they don’t last.
- I’m sorry don’t do this. This book is extremely highly praised. It won the Goodreads choice award in 2011, has tons of fawning 5 star reviews, and is compared regularly to LOTR. I’m happy that you recognize that it’s not “great literature”, but there are many people who do not share your moderation. I also share your opinion of Rothfuss BTW.
thejdizzler
4d ago
Thanks for the Tchaikovsky rec! Which of his books do you recommend in particular?
thejdizzler
4d ago
I agree in some ways. Kaladin really does follow the heroes journey quite well in this book: going from depressed and suicidal to a real leader of men with supernatural powers. However, it's not like this plot line hasn't been done a million times before, a lot of ways in a much more satisfying way because the characters involved are real people instead of cut outs. Kaladin doesn't really have to change his worldview at all throughout the book: he's still completely obsessed with saving people, he's just gained the powers to actually do so effectively. Contrast this to something like Joe Abercrombie's A Shattered Sea YA series where the main characters are also a bunch of pathetic slaves, but actually have to change their outlook on the world and really sacrifice to grow in strength (whereas Kaladin just gets a bunch of Deus Ex machina powers). Any shonen anime (Attack on Titan, etc.) has the same arc. For a non-fantasy example, consider the movie Cool Runnings about the development of a Jamaican bobsledding team. I'm not particularly convinced that Kaladin's story is anything special compared to the wider world of literature.
thejdizzler
4d ago
I think I agree. He's the romantasy equivalent for dudes.
thejdizzler
4d ago
Wanted to write a longer review of The Way of Kings to spark a bit more of a discussion on Sanderson and fiction in general. Blog version of this post if any are interested.
One of my 2025 reading goals was to read more “normie” books, which basically entailed reading more books that my non-online friends recommended to me. The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson, the first book in the Stormlight Archives series had to be one of the most frequent recommendations I have received, especially from my college friends. A couple of my other Baltimore friends were embarking on a read of this book too, so I decided I would give it a shot this past summer, reading in Spanish as I usually do with easier fiction1.
To cut to the chase, I really didn’t like this book, although strangely also enjoyed my time reading it. The book was extremely bloated: it’s longer than all of Lord of the Rings and contains far less plot, has juvenile, unbelievable worldbuilding, and has so little character development and growth that I’m beginning to doubt the tastes of my many friends who recommended the book to me. That said, The Way of Kings is extremely readable, and if you just want to turn your brain off and read some Lit RPG, MCU-like adventure pulp, this book is the perfect thing for you.
Short plot summary
The Way of Kings takes place on the alien world of Roshar, which is known for its extremely strong and powerful storms. These storms infuse precious stones with “stormlight” which can then be used to power machines (soulcasters) or perform magic. Despite the beautiful map depicting this world, we only get to see a tiny portion of it in the first book: The Shattered Plains which are in the southeast corner of the above map.
The plot of the book centers on three different characters: Kaladin, who is a depressed slave, forced to carry assault bridges for a war that is being fought on the Shattered Plains, Dalinar Kholin, a noble who is in charge, at least in part of conducting said war, and Shallan, a want-to-be scholar trying to study under Dalinar’s niece, who also has to attempt a heist of a soulcaster.
The plot is a bit hard to describe beyond that without getting into spoiler territory, which is a big part of the problem with this book: a lack of direction and bloat.
Bloat
The Way of Kings is 383,389 words. All of The Lord of the Rings, including supplemental material like the appendices of The Return of the King, is approximately 550k words. So for more than 2/3 of the length of that entire series, we basically get a book that serves as a long prologue to the Stormlight Archive, with maybe some serious action in the last 80k words. This is not uncommon in epic fantasy series: the first entry in the First Law Trilogy, The Blade Itself, serves a similar role, as does the first Wheel of Time book, and arguably The Blood of Elves in The Witcher series. But none of these are as long as The Way of Kings, as weak stylistically, or as devoid of momentum for the rest of the series.
The bloat present in The Way of Kings is present on multiple levels. The most egregious is on the sentence/paragraph level, where Sanderson literally repeats himself. Some examples below:
He started pulling again. Bridgemen who were laggard in work were whipped, and bridgemen who were laggard on runs were executed. The army was very serious about that. Refuse to charge the Parshendi, try to lag behind the other bridges, and you’d be beheaded. They reserved that fate for that specific crime, in fact.
The Parshendi usually fled when they suffered heavy losses. It was one of the things that made the war drag on so long. “It could mean a turning point in the war,” Sadeas said, his eyes blazing. “My scribes estimate they will have no more than 20 or 30,000 troops left. The Parshendi will send 10,000 there—they always do. But if we could round them up and kill them all, we would nearly destroy their ability to wage war on these Plains.” “It will work, Father,” Adolin said eagerly. “That could be what we’ve been waiting for—what you’ve been waiting for. A way to turn the tide of the war, a way to cause so much damage to the Parshendi that they can’t afford to fight on!”
"Sadeas's hand had gone to his sword. Not a Shardblade, for Sadeas didn't have one." "The highprince hated that Adolin had a blade while Sadeas had none"
I don’t know what Sanderson’s editor was doing, but cutting this kind of dialogue could have shaved off nearly 10% of the book at least.
Then there’s repetition on a larger scale. The book is filled with nearly identical scenes in which not much happens. Dalinar assaults mesa after mesa with only minor variation that moves the plot forward at a snails pace. Shallan has lunch and reads books. Kalinar has countless training sessions with his bridge crew that blend together in my mind. Contrast this to chapters in a book like Game of Thrones. This is what happens in the eighth Tyrion chapter in that book
Tyrion and his clansmen are assigned to the vanguard under the command of Ser Gregor Clegane. Returning to his tent, Tyrion is greeted by a whore named Shae, whom Bronn has found for him. Before dawn, Tyrion is roused by the call to arms. In the ensuing battle on the Green Fork, Tyrion and his clansmen do well and the enemy is routed. Afterward Lord Tywin Lannister learns that Robb Stark has tricked him. (AWOIAF wiki).
There are at least four plot beats in this chapter. Contrast this to a typical Kaladin chapter in The Way of Kings:
Kaladin tells Leyten to make carapace armor for every member of Bridge Four except for Shen. Kaladin observes spear practice and notices that Moash is very skilled. He asks about his purpose, and Moash replies that he wants vengeance, but declines to say on whom. Kaladin and Rock discuss their plans to escape. Teft asks Kaladin to teach the bridgemen but he declines, saying that he would become too eager and impatient, and Kaladin admits that he failed in the past and that it got to him. (Coppermind.net)
There is one thing that really happens in this chapter, and it doesn’t really move the plot forward at all.
I estimate at least 50% of the scenes could be cut in this book with nothing being lost.
Bogus world building
In a certain sense, the worldbuilding of Sanderson is very effective. He’s very good at constructing impressive vistas, like the city of Kharbranth, which is built into the side of a mountain, or the Shattered Plains as a whole. Things like shard blades and the quasi-superheroes who wield them are also “cool” upon first glance. But the moment you look behind any of these shock and awe spectacles, it turns out there’s almost nothing there. Sanderson’s world building in this book feels incredibly arbitrary and poorly thought out.
Take the central feature of Roshar: it’s extremely powerful storms. We get some sense of how this affects everyday life on Roshar: the city of Kharbranth for example has grown to prominence because of its extremely sheltered location that protects it from the most damaging effects of said storms. Yet the strength of these storms is conveniently forgotten when it’s not important to the plot. Big armies are camped out in the open on the Shattered Plains: how are the damages from these storms not bigger, especially among the merchants/prostitutes/camp followers who aren’t officially part of the army. And this is not to mention how little of an understanding we have of how the agricultural system works when these storms are such a big issue.
Then there’s the issue of gender. Sanderson seemingly randomly decides that certain traits are masculine and feminine in this world. Not only is this not really how this works in the real world, but actively makes little sense in his own world. Reading for example, is something that basically only women practice. Yet any man or group of men who learned to read would have a huge military advantage. This kind of trait would not last long in a competitive society, which Alekezar almost certainly is.
Religion too is largely pretty undeveloped. There’s no real tension between competing religious beliefs, even in kingdoms that have only recently been converted to the dominate faith of vorinism, which is basically a reskin of Christianity. Contrast this again to Game of Thrones, where we see significant religious tension when Stannis tries to burn heart trees sacred to the Old Gods, or septs dedicated to the seven, or when Cersei gets locked up for treating the Faith of the Seven as a power-hungry atheist would. In The Way of Kings, there is no real consequence for Jasnah’s atheism, and no real religious tension between competing religious beliefs.
The problem I think, comes from Sanderson’s opinion of culture as something completely arbitrary and cosmetic. I want to say that this comes from his Mormon faith, but I honestly think it’s pretty common in the West right now. Islam, Buddhism, stoicism, and Christianity aren’t funny hats that you wear because they’re cool, they developed out of the real material and spiritual realities of past societies. Religion and culture are the way they are because of the way the world is, not because someone merely decided that they were true2.
Bad taste: why do people like this book?
Despite all my criticisms of the book, I did enjoy myself while reading it. The basic plot beats follow the heroes journey, while painfully slowly, and it is satisfying to see our characters grow in power and (eventually) make better decisions. Reading felt like watching a Marvel movie, which scratches a certain itch, while not being particularly healthy as a large component of one’s intellectual diet. I will probably continue with the series, as Sanderson has sufficiently hooked me on the plot enough for me to want to find out what happens.
What I don’t understand is how this is praised as one of the best books of all time. The prose is weak and bloated, the world building is shallow, and the characters are cardboard cut outs of people pulled from a children’s cartoon. There is no forward momentum of the plot, and the attempts at romance and wit are cringey and juvenile.
Yet people love this book. Why? I have a few theories.
First of all, I don’t think people read particularly widely any more. If this was the only fantasy book I had ever read, I think it would have been difficult not to have been impressed by the scale and scope of the novel, as well as the “character development” of the three main characters. Yet compared to the other genre greats, like GRRM, Ursula Le Guin, Joe Abercrombie, Robin Hobb, or even Robert Jordan, it’s hard not to see this as an unpolished YA novel.
Secondly, the relative flatness of the main characters makes it very easy to do a self-insert. Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar are all pretty much defined by one or two key traits, which makes it very easy to slot yourself into the story in their place. This also explains the appeal of Harry Potter, who has the same trait up until around halfway through the series.
Thirdly, I think the simplistic morality and illusion of “philosophy” that this book offers appeals to people who want to think of themselves as tackling the big questions, but who lack the intellectual chops and/or the ability to move outside of their narrow worldview to consider truly alien cultures.
Finally, I think a lot of the hype around these books is due to the consistent, predictable nature of Sanderson as an author. Just like with your favorite Harry Potter slashfic writer who releases a new chapter every week, you know you will get 2-3 Sanderson books a year, with a minimum level of quality and an assurance of a certain level of action and “cool” new worldbuilding.
1.5/5 stars
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This serves two purposes. First, it slows down the pace of the story so I can marinate in the details/prose. This is slowly becoming less effective over time as my Spanish improves: I may need to switch to another language soon. The second purpose is to get some daily practice with the language.
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Yes one might argue that I have the causality reversed, but these faiths and the culture that were built around could only work if they mapped on to the real material conditions of the world and the spiritual conditions of the human mind.
thejdizzler
8d ago
Thanks for this! I have been struggling with porn use for about 6 years (when I decided I wanted to quit), and nothing seems to have worked. The times I've been clean for longest (couple weeks at a time) were when I took drastic steps to reduce physical proximity to stimulus: banning websites on my phone/computer, reducing screen time drastically, no social media so I wouldn't see thots in my real life post slutty pictures.
Other stuff like having a girlfriend, or even becoming Catholic didn't really help kick the habit. It's heartening to see that the road to porn-free life goes through the physical realm, rather than the vague spiritual realm where a lot of my peers seems to think it resides.
thejdizzler
8d ago
So I finally finished Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. Not a bad book by any means, but I don't really get why people think this is one of the best things ever written. While I enjoyed the last 80% of the book, and the last 30% was really fantastic, I had to read almost an entire novel of confusing and soulless exposition in the first 20% of the book. Even in the "better" last 80%, Sanderson could really have used a more aggressive editor. The characters are interesting enough, although I found most of them to be two dimensional rather than three dimensional, although this may change in the later books. Prose seemed fine, although difficult to judge because I was reading in Spanish. Book also seems to lack any kind of nuanced themes, although there is some stuff about mental health, religion vs. atheism, and morality in general. All in all, fun if bloated, epic fantasy, that doesn't have anything particular to say about the human condition (other than being depressed doesn't relieve you of responsibility to other people).
That said, I was pleasantly surprised by Sanderson, and I probably will continue with the series. Friends have told me his writing improves over time, which bodes well for my future reading experience, and jives well with my veneration of consistent and patient work as the key to pretty much anything (Sanderson is a very reliable writer who is very transparent and consistent with his deadlines).
thejdizzler
8d ago
The problem is when I wake up in the middle of the night, I usually am not sufficiently rested. I know I need more sleep.
I track sleep because it is a leading metric on other things: recovery from training above all. I really don't understand the skepticism towards biometrics on this forum.
thejdizzler
8d ago
I had insomnia in college that I resolved with CBT. That was a falling asleep problem. I no longer have that problem at all (except when I don’t follow obvious sleep hygiene tips about stimulation before bed).
I pretty religiously track sleep, but I don’t feel that I’m anxious about it. There maybe is a feeling of frustration/annoyance when I wake up at 3/4 for the 1,000th time, but I don’t fall asleep fearing that, if that makes sense.
thejdizzler
10d ago
I will definitely do this November/December this year when I am not training hard. It is helpful when training to have stuff tell me when to chill out and when I can put in work.
thejdizzler
10d ago
Figured out how to "reduce stress" on Oura ring readings. Basically need to make sure I take computer breaks throughout the day. Post lunch time walk, computer-free lab meeting, etc. have added a lot of restorative time to my days. This seems to be correlated with how I'm feeling as well.
Still waking up every single day at 4am. Usually manage to go back to sleep with a low dose melatonin, but is still annoying. My leading hypothesis is something to do with blood sugar, am trying to eat more fat and protein. Any tips/thoughts appreciated.
thejdizzler
13d ago
Holy shit, didn't even know Israel bombed Qatar. That seems like a terrible overstep by the leadership, as Qatar was kind of friendly to Israel before and in the US pocket.
thejdizzler
13d ago
Cycling easy (running easy never really relaxes me), walking in a forest, reading a good fantasy novel.
thejdizzler
14d ago
It’s also in money heist, which is a fairly popular, albeit Spanish, show on Netflix.
thejdizzler
15d ago
My bad, realized I said against when I meant for. I was referring to all the leftists saying Charlie Kirk deserved it because he was pro second amendment.
This would make sense.... if they weren't so for gun control.
thejdizzler
15d ago
Yep my comment makes no sense in the light of the Oz universe. But as analogy to the Charlie Kirk situation, I think it still fits. The democrats aren't "slaves" to Charlie Kirk (maybe you could make this argument about Trump).
thejdizzler
15d ago
Another great comment! Academia is supposed to be this place where these ideas can be debated, which I think is the appeal of it to me. It would be one thing if professors/scientists said: "I don't care what the science says about xyz policy, I believe abc for ideological reasons". That's basically what the right does most of the time, which I find annoying, but not objectionable. It's this twisting of objective truth finding that really grinds my gears. Things like racism is a bigger public health crisis than COVID, denial of a genetic basis for racial differences, and excessive focus on grifting redistributive policies that don't work do a lot to undermine public trust in sense making as a way to tackle problems. Now I don't think right-leaning academia would necessarily be much better (look at all the crap that people come up with about seed oils), but that's not the world we live in.
And maybe it's never really been free from bias (which many posters here will certainly be happy to claim), but I think it's also crazy to deny that science is objectively more corrupt and less effective at changing society (for the better) than 100 years ago.
thejdizzler
15d ago
Very good comment, and very true. The most sane graduate students and professors I know completely stay out of politics (or are some kind of milquetoast abundance liberals, which I find problematic for other reasons). Those slightly less sane think of people outside of academia as children to be reasoned with using patronizing arguments. The least sane think that they are shit that needs to be wiped off the floor. This would maybe be coherent (yet still abhorrent imo) if they were authoritarian ubermenschen who controlled all the levers of political and personal violence. But these people are usually terribly out of shape, gun-hating, "democracy" loving keyboard warriors. Say what you will about the revolutionaries of the 20th century, they actually had the cojones and physical abilities to enact and enforce their political ideas.
thejdizzler
15d ago
Imagine now that half of Oz supports the witch and her policies. Imagine the Munchkins know this. Doesn't that cast their celebration in a different light?
Thanks for this example! I stand corrected.
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