entirely owe their existence to Hitler's legacy
That is blatantly false, for multiple reasons. Dropping "entirely" would help a bit but still would be untrue.
And I am not calling for rolling back anything communist adjacent - I would not support undoing electrification of many rural areas of Poland on basis "it happened under communism". And I am not going to kill myself because I was born during communist rule. Or deconstruct motorways where construction started under Hitler.
But i would support undoing things done by Third Reich and USSR regimes that were unwanted.
Do you still hold their independence to be legitimate?
Yes.
You also know that Poland signed a nonaggression pact with the Third Reich, and took part in the partition of Czechoslovakia, don't you?
Yes. BTW, Trans-Olza is nowadays in Czechia.
traveller
1yr ago
And I suspect that the best thing that homolobby can do for itself in Ukraine is to play on repeat Putin complaining about homolobby and satanist nazi jewish gay Ukrainians.
In the same way, Himmler will refer to a camp, like Sobibor, as a "Transit Camp"
Transit? Between what? Somehow people were ending in camps and disappearing there, never heard about again.
And even if we believe all that (and there is no good reason for that), then according to own plans they were expecting that they will be enslaved and most of them will quickly die.
Seriously, starving people to death in concentration camps is not better - in any way - than gas chambers. So even if this specific denial you peddle would be 100% accurate then it would not change much, except historians being even more suspicious.
And your outright "mass murder of Jews never happened" is just absurd. Are you also denying that Germans mass-murdered Gypsies? Poles?
And thanks to RococoBasilica, nice to have confirmation that you were lying or being misleading about "no documents".
Is there any logical reason for a nazi symphatiser to claim the Holocaust wasn't as murderous as the official accounts?
No, but I would not expect much from nazi symphatisers. Extreme tankies that I encountered at least tend to be self consistent and more reality-adjacent with their "we murdered kulaks and that was a good thing" or more modern "we hope that Europeans, especially Ukrainians, will freeze to death during 2022/2023 winter"[1].
"Holocaust has not happened but should" is something that I often encountered among online nazis, especially 4chan adjacent.
BTW, I need to refind this Russian propaganda how European Union will freeze during winter, so far it is going even more hilariously than I expected.
[1]not an exact quote, I forgot the slur that was used here
Not to mention, of course, that the Russian command did bungle it.
And also accepted foreign aid. With gems such as
transcript revealed that Putin told the families that Admiral of the Fleet Vladimir Kuroyedov had agreed to accept foreign assistance as soon as it was offered on Wednesday, 16 August, but he was shouted down as soon as he offered this explanation. The family members knew from media reports that foreign assistance had been offered on Monday.
and
Six teams of British and Norwegian divers arrived on Friday, 18 August. (...) When the divers attempted to open the air-control valve, it would not move. Russian experts told the divers that they must open the valve anticlockwise, or they would break it. The divers finally went against the experts' advice and tried turning it clockwise, which worked.
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster )
traveller
1yr ago
russia would make peace.
Yeah, and sign peace promising respecting remaining part of Ukraine. Maybe it should be signed in Budapest and called Budapest Memorandum II ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum )
traveller
1yr ago
Can you reply to:
-
do you deny that Nazis murdered millions of civilians in areas they occupied
-
are you a neonazi
-
is SS as acronym deliberate
?
Where are all the bodies?
What you claim to happened with people who were transported into for example Auschwitz?
traveller
1yr ago
Secondly, the loss of buffer states creates huge opportunities for proxy wars.
It seems to me that starting proxy war against NATO is a poor way to avoid proxy wars against NATO.
traveller
1yr ago
explicitly describe the "final solution" as the evacuation of the Jews to the East
Even if you interpret it in painfully positive way it still has explicitly (1) A majority of people will not survive this (2) The survivors will have to be "treated" as not to serve as a "gamete" for the reconstruction of European Judaism (3) Mixed children will, with some exceptions, be expelled, forced into "evacuation", or sterilised.
Calling it evacuation is extremely misleading and you know it. I bet that you would be really unhappy if you and your family would be "evacuated" in this way.
The post-war demographic data entirely comes from Soviet authorities
Not entirely. There were some many Jewish Poles that to detect that they almost entirely disappeared does not require reliable statistics. Entire communities disappeared, to the point that it was noticeable even in Poland where around 16% of population was murdered.
You are again being misleading. Populations of Jews in Poland (before they were murdered by Germans) was readily noticeable, it is not like COVID/vaccines where you need to rely on statistics to establish effects.
And for some weird reason they basically disappeared and by pure coincidence that happened during time when Germans invaded. And Germans had rabid hate toward Jews, even greater then toward Poles/Ukrainians which were supposed to be subjugated and enslaved.
Even if Germans imprisoned Jews in concentrations camps and starved there them to death, and gas chambers were entirely fake then it does not strongly change anything at all. OK, it reduces my opinion about historians. But surely it will not improve my opinion about Nazis.
Or are you denying that Germans were rapidly antisemitic? Are you denying deportation to ghettos? Are you denying deportation to concentration camps? Are you also denying murder of millions via shooting and starvation? (also Poles, Gypsies, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians and so on, Jews were less than half of victims of Holocaust). Are you denying that people in concentration camps were horrifyingly mistreated?
traveller
1yr ago
The high mortality at these camps liberated by the Western allies was caused by a collapsing German infrastructure as it was being destroyed in the final days of the war.
What you then claim what happened with Polish Jewish pre-war population? Are you also claiming that forcing Jews into ghettos by Germans was fake? Executing people across conquered territories?
I bet that there is plenty of propaganda (add "soap made from human fat" to that) but presenting in a way that claims "Germans have not mass-murdered millions" is even more misleading.
Also, is it intentional that your username in short is SS?
traveller
1yr ago
If they're so smart, why did they fall for the psy-op?
If we discuss reality? Because vaccine was better than no vaccine.
Anyone with a certain brain processing power that has lived in the Western world for 20+ years has no excuse.
For not taking vaccine.
traveller
1yr ago
Citadel by marketing material doesn’t take those risks. All factor neutral.
Many funds that failed in catastrophic ways made similar claims.
See say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management - to say nothing about repeated outright scams claiming the same
traveller
1yr ago
If UE would continue pulling hard toward unstable sources like wind and solar that will make gas peakers (and pumped hydropower and other now theoretical grid-scale batteries) more needed, not less.
(or you can just redefine gas as green and renewable and go on if you really need this)
traveller
1yr ago
Poland constructed border wall and illegally pushed back migrants.
Unlike with almost all other things EU was not really complaining (unless it is proceeding and someone plans to dump also this on Poland/PiS?).
traveller
1yr ago
Yes, any city dedicating a statue to its founder and leaving it to stand is a completely self-evident course of events. There's no need to back that up.
People disliking people murdering them is very natural. Disliking things associated with murderers is also generally obvious.
completely self-evident course of events. There's no need to back that up.
As demonstrated by Odessa residents it is not, where it was removed with broad local support.
traveller
1yr ago
Would you slap your sister if she told you she was considering it, because you don't treat her right and she needs some of that self-care mmmh mmmh?
No, because slapping is a poor way to persuade people.
Also, if that would happen then thing went horrifying wrong before and I prefer actions taking far earlier.
traveller
1yr ago
It is strange to accuse Revisionists of "moving the goalposts" when you refuse to defend the core elements of the mainstream narrative.
Personally I am not familiar with gas chambers details and I am unwilling to spend 20+ hours on research just to debate with neonazi on the internet on some obscure forum. Sorry SS if you are not a neonazi but I asked you multiple times about that and about origin of your username and you never responded so I assume that you are.
But I am far more certain that Germans murdered millions of people, many of them for being Jews. And that part is much, much easier to defend without spending overly long time to research this things.
So if you deny that Nazis murdered millions of people that is much easier thing to discuss for me, and if you do not deny then you would become more interesting to debate details. If you would deny that Germans forced Jews into ghettos then things would get even more obvious.
traveller
1yr ago
We shouldn’t just blindly accept the government narrative about war, in fact the default is better off being negative.
Europeans should be more scepticals but at least only small minority is failing for much lower quality Russian claims. So it is not a complete failure at least.
traveller
1yr ago
Documents show that these workers were very important for the war effort
Because Germans were famous for not-terrible-treatment of conquered areas where everyone had first-hand experience of USSR.
Oh wait, they were so terrible that people as result initially welcomed USSR as liberators (despite that things then went almost as bad as "liberation" by Third Reich). And put plenty of effort into sabotaging German war effort to help USSR.
Germans had hilariously poor treatment of potential recruits and workers, they actually believed that they as subhumans and failed to even pretend otherwise.
traveller
1yr ago
Why would I address it when you aren't even trying to defend mainstream historiography?
So you are agreeing that Germans murdered millions of Jews, just not with gas chambers?
traveller
1yr ago
Though the same group proves that PoWs were treated awfully by Russia.
So apparently really bad treatment is happening, though without routine murder of surrendering Ukrainians. Always nice to be passing some standards.
traveller
1yr ago
What was the window of opportunity for Ukraine to run away, in your view?
Directly after fall of communism and some time later. Plenty of stuff was stolen during that time in Poland but Ukraine went far further and economical growth was anaemic later.
The made some steps since 2014 but it was too late to avoid Russian invasion and may be also too late to avoid conquest by Russia.
Resurrection of Jesus for start.
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