This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's like we have become allergic to actual news or something. Why is every topic here now a snoozefest.
Here are a few suggestions. Pick up the ball and go
Conventional war in Eastern Europe
Genocide in Middle East
Unprecedented invasion of America
Unsustainable price increases in Western world
Canadian retroactive 'Hate Speech' laws
Lady flashing her tits at the Times Square portal
Lomez getting doxxed and turning out to be handsome, but also Jewish
Milei singing in a superhero costume
Eurovision being even more Satanic and odd than usual
Lizzo at the Met gala looking like a chicken nugget and being physically carried around by white attendants
GME and AMC popped 100% again for some reason
JK Rowling might get arrested for calling a man a man
Literally just pick a topic that's not obtuse guys. We're all collectively losing the reason to visit.
Most of those things are discussed pretty regularly here. Others are just uninteresting. Another dissident right personage turns out to be Jewish? At this stage it would be surprising if someone prominent on the DR wasn’t Jewish (Sailer DNA test reveal when). Big price rises in the US, particularly in service (stuff like fast food etc) are just due to labor shortage related pay increases for the poorest workers since 2020, they’re not hugely interesting. Day traders being retarded again? As I recall the statistics showing, something like 95-99% of them lose money in the long term. Eurovision being gay and weird, really? (Also this was literally a discussion last week).
If you have a good idea, make a top-level comment.
I know that this is the talking point making the rounds, but the fact is that the DR is self-aware of a large contingent of Jewish so-called "Dissidents" who may profess interest in HBD and "The West" or whatever, but otherwise ignore or actively countersignal the Jewish Question as critiqued from the Dissident Right.
Everybody on the "DR" who ignores or countersignals the Jewish Question is automatically coded as Jewish by the real DR. That's a model with a high sensitivity and lower specificity, but a high-sensitivity model is what you need to countersignal subversives. Many of these figures orbit around the BAP sphere.
The fact is, racist Jews aren't dissidents, just like white racist liberals are not dissidents. They aren't wolves in sheep's clothing, they are sheep in wolve's clothing.
The whole "the entire DR is secretly Jews" thing is not true, but "the anons who claim to be DR because they poast racists memes, but they countersignal the JQ from the rest of the DR, those are all secretly Jewish" is true enough of the time to be a useful model here. The DR is very aware of what is going on here, nobody is surprised.
Why are racist Jews not part of the dissident right? Unless you make the Jewish Question the single thing that matters? This is rather laughable to me.
I don't care about the Jewish Question. Sure, Jews are overrepresented. Sure, there's probably some mild level of in-group preference or elitism somewhere, although much of the overrepresentation is probably just due to high IQ combined with whatever cultural factors lead to more ambition. But, really, why should I care? Whatever's happening is surely not at the scale that it would have much of a concrete effect on my life. I've liked most of the Jews I've met.
(And since you say that everyone who ignores or countersignals the Jewish Question is automatically coded as Jewish, no, I'm not Jewish, though for full disclosure, I think one of my grandparents said I may have had trace levels of Jewish ancestry.)
For the same reason Jews are concerned with anti-Semitism from non-Jews.
"Dissident Right" describes an inertia towards White identity politics. The old Alt-right had pie-in-the-sky ideas like "The Ethnostate" or stopping immigration, which are never going to happen, and the DR is now more grounded in the emergence of white people learning to behave like minorities among potentially racially-hostile neighbors. I'll even be the first to admit that the essence of the "DR" is basically to get white people to behave more like Jews in certain respects. Look at how important outspoken opposition to antisemitism is to Jewish identity. It's not laughable for white people to also adopt an outspoken opposition those who engage in group-motivated political and cultural hostility.
And if you were to apply even a modicum of the consternation Jews have towards antisemitism from the perspective of a fledgling pro-white movement, it is incredibly obvious that Jewish political and cultural power is a huge obstacle towards those objectives, perhaps the largest. Jews do not want white people behaving like Jews, and they will flex enormous political, economic, and cultural power to stop it from happening. Not out of principle, it's just pure ethno-political and cultural competition.
Then you have a contingent of racist "dissidents" who deny or ignore this fact and try to steer the DR away from anti-semitic critique, but then they often turn out to be Jewish themselves.
Imagine if a gentile adopted a super-Jewish aesthetic and attracted a Jewish audience using super-Jewish memes, but then the kicker is he would countersignal Jewish opposition to anti-Semitism. He would obviously be considered a subversive, not a Jew.
Ah, I guess you might have a narrower opinion of what Dissident Right refers to than I did, which would explain some of the difference, depending, I suppose, on what exactly you mean by white identity politics. I would have considered HBD-ish views, combined with other edginess (e.g. takes on gender), to be sufficient to be dissident right, even without advocating for a group racial identity.
Personally, I suppose I'm pro-white in the sense that I don't think that we deserve the enmity coming our way, but I do think that the more important unit of opposition isn't really about race but about politics. (In the US. South Africa, for example, may be another story.) I don't think it's healthy to intensify racial division (and Hanania's probably right when he argues that the main impulse behind our current racial tensions is due to black racial grievance), as that leads to more societal dysfunction. That is, I'm in favor of defensive action against anti-white discrimination. I'm neutral about positive racial identity, as a celebration of ancestry, past etc, though I think national pride is probably a healthier way to go about that, if anything. But I'm not in favor of making that anywhere near the key component of identity, nor having tribal-ish racial preferences.
Isn't this already the baseline for politics on the right? Hence the opposition to affirmative action, etc. Can you name a single conservative thinker who is pro-affirmative action?
Again, it would be healthier if this were adopted by being pro-meritocracy, rather than pro-white, although in this case for different reasons. Looking at things in terms of attempting to capture spoils leads to socialism (as the frame is around getting people to give me stuff), whereas we need more of the American focus on excellence and dynamism.
Maybe? Although you might rather point to the left in general. But I don't know that I agree with your vision of how society and identity should be shaped anyway, so I suppose I don't see this as a terrible thing.
When you're obviously racist against Jews, it doesn't surprise me that they're opposed to such behavior. I imagine some events, oh, 80 years ago or so might have had an influence on how they approach such decisions. Do you really think they should be cheering you on as you try to form lines of in-group preference and out-group prejudice with them on the outside?
But in any case, I think your final analogy breaks down somewhat because plenty of people identify as both Jewish and white (indeed, before the recent introduction of the Middle East/North Africa census category, that was the government-approved way for Jews to identify). So then, people having a super-white aesthetic and attracting a white audience using super-white memes could still be Jewish and be doing what they're doing authentically, whereas that isn't possible in your analogy.
No, I can't, and that's the point.
So to summarize:
So where's the dissidence? That's just standard boomer conservative. Maybe you believe in race and IQ and hate women, that doesn't make you a dissident it basically just makes you a Republican. A lot of Republicans have low-key or implicit HBD views and similar "edgy" views on gender.
Hence, the sheep in wolves' clothing. These people act all based and red-pilled with edgy memes or greek statue avatars, but at the end of the day they basically just support republican talking points, are highly defensive of Jews, and don't really care for white identity politics.
Yes, actually, I do think they should have fostered a white identity rather than incessantly critiqued and subverted it, but that ship had sailed. White Americans gave fealty to Jews in the 20th century, none was given in return. That's how it's supposed to work, you can't demand fealty and give none in return. But now I just accept they are a political opposition, which is why this is an important issue, and when anon "dissidents" deny that it's an important issue it's a strong tell they are secretly Jewish.
Well, not primarily, at least.
Of course. I am in favor of prosperity. This is how best to get it. (And in favor of fairness, and of good racial relations. This gives that, too.)
Mostly? I'm certainly pro-white in that I want white people to do well, that I think we've been the most successful race on earth to date, and think that there are some domains where we may need more advocacy. I'm not in favor of engaging in a process of racial competition and spoils-dividing instead of prosperity/wealth-producing.
Mostly. But not out of any special affinity for national identity, but because it gives something to unite around. And not strictly opposed to racial identity either, just heavily cautious.
The proper location for identity is in Jesus Christ, of course.
Yes, I want success, not squabbling.
To disappoint you further, I like women. Sure, you've convinced me that racial views don't suffice to make me especially dissident; I suppose, now, I'd rather not be dissident, that it is wrong and counterproductive.
Who are the jews in the dissident right?
Okay, then, good.
Do you support Jews having a Jewish identity? Is that good?
If by political opposition, you mean across party lines, this is not necessary. Jews are trending conservative as secular Jews lose their Judaism and religious Jews are bearing more children, and after 10/7, many Jews are more wary of the left than before.
A strong tell? Really?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link