site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 10, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

FDA vs Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine, the mifepristone case, was decided by SCOTUS. Full verdict here. The anti-abortion plaintiffs lose 9-0 on standing, with (quite properly for a case lost on standing) no discussion of the merits. Kav writes for the majority, with Thomas concurring on a technical point of standing law (on one of three theories of standing advanced by AHM the majority think they lose on the facts, but Thomas admits that this is correct under current precedent buy under a correct reading of the Constitution he thinks they lose on the law instead).

Quick thoughts:

  • The unanimous opinion treats this as an easy standing case. It is somewhat longer than an opinion needs to be in an easy standing case, which suggests that at least some of the justices wanted to benchslap Judge Kacsmaryk and the 5th Circuit panel.
  • Standing requirements make lawfare harder. If the right-wing Justices wanted to unleash a campaign of right-leaning lawfare then they could have decided this case differently, so it looks like the small-c conservative aversion to lawfare is holding up even with a right-wing Court.
  • Nevertheless, I suspect the pro-life movement can find a plaintiff with standing - perhaps a Catholic mail carrier who objects to delivering abortifacients could sue under the Comstock Act (which looks like the plaintiffs' best argument on the merits). But nothing is going to be decided before the election if a plaintiff wiht standing files a new suit.
  • The Project 2025 says that an incoming Republican administration should aggressively enforce the Comstock Act (which is prsumptively constitutional post-Dobbs) against pharmacies posting mifepristone to patients. This would render this litigation irrelevant.

mifepristone

So correct me if I am wrong, but this is suppose to induce a miscarriage at home and the woman is supposed to deal with the remains herself?

Mail-order abortificants seem like something that is going to blow up in proponents faces.

They’ll blame pro-life laws for it. As dumb as it is, there are people blaming drug prohibition for overdoses.

As dumb as it is, there are people blaming drug prohibition for overdoses.

Those people are entirely correct. ODing from a surprising dose of Fentanyl mixed in with other drugs wouldn't happen if drugs were distributed by pharmaceutical companies rather than Mexican cartels.

The ultimate effect of drug bans are that society is awash in illegal drugs and the kinds of people who make illegal drugs have poor quality control.

I was thinking recently that this type of reasoning leads to some pretty hilarious conclusions. The splashy one is that every single pro-legalization advocate should be bowing down to the Sackler family and protesting against the cruel use of law against them, which, after all, only hurts drug users. Rather than being in any way related to increased drug usage (that's magically impossible), all they were doing was producing a perfectly safe pharmaceutical product which, as a matter of pure logic, necessarily saves lives. Will you join in erecting a statue in their honor? Maybe we can place it next to St. George Floyd's statue.

I'm not planning on erecting statues or bowing to them. But they didn't spike all sorts of drugs with surprise fentanyl, so they're better than the cartel alternative.

that's magically impossible

Boo. Boo on this kind of snark. We should be better. You have an actual point here, but your need to get in cheap snarky jabs is obscuring it.

Would you like to put in some reasoning for why this magic is actually reality? Or just boo anything you disagree with? (I stand by that it's positing magic to make ridiculous claims that violate the basic laws of supply and demand in economics.)