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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   35427 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 3, 2022

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The stakes here are renaming a few species with weird names, so ... seems unimportant tbh. Taxonomic names are regularly changed, often because species weren't related in the manner previously thought, so it wouldn't be that disruptive to do a few more. Obviously the motivation for doing so is very dumb, it accomplishes nothing and creates needless work, but it won't be destroying taxonomy or anything.

Taxonomic names are regularly changed, often because species weren't related in the manner previously thought, so it wouldn't be that disruptive to do a few more.

TBH I appreciate you saying this though. I was under the mistaken impression that there would be downstream effects, of mass renames. Perhaps there would be at the scale that would "satisfy" those who want to, but it makes sense that the system isn't totally fragile.

seems unimportant tbh.

If it's too unimportant to object to, it's too unimportant to insist upon.

No, not if the cost/benefit favors one side.

Yeah, that's why uncompromising fanatics always win.

If someone is making an objection, clearly they have their own calculations about what the costs and benefits are. One side or the other (or neither) may be right, but that can be decided on the merits, and dismissing the values of one side out-of-hand as invalid doesn't strike me as productive.

Or to put it another way, apply "just get over it" omnidirectionally or not at all.

They are saying

  1. Such changes would impact a small number of species

  2. Such changes are common

  3. Therefore, this doesn't matter that much.

They even agree that the motivation is "very dumb" and "creates needless work".

You simply rounded their answer to the nearest meme argument (X is unimportant, so why are you complaining) and responded with the appropriate meme response.

Sorry, but history has put me very much on guard against salami-slicing tactics.

"Oh, come on! They care about it so much, and you have no reason (we'll permit to you) to object! Just this one time, this one time give them everything they want."

But this is an iterated game. It's never just "this one time." A few "this one times" and suddenly Putin is trying to grab the entire rest of Ukraine and how could this have happened?

But there is a criterion that tells me when we're not hurtling down a slippery slope, though: some specific, sturdy catch somewhere before the bottom. A Schelling point that can be pointed to to say that the line of argument can be extended only there and not indefinitely. Is there one in this case? Probably. I can't envision any given one that's particularly clear, myself, so if there's something that seems clear to anybody else, I would much appreciate the clarification.

Taxonomic names are regularly changed, often because species weren't related in the manner previously thought

They are regularly changed because the previous names were wrong: placing a species in the wrong genus, grouping two species into one, and so forth. They are never changed because someone doesn't like the name.

There is a firm principle that scientific names can't be changed unless it's justified by new discoveries. Changing even one name will open the floodgates. You know it won't stop at Hitler. There are many other species named after bad people, and still more named after people wokeists would consider bad. It will lead to all sorts of squabbles, with no benefit whatsoever.

The Hitler beetle's name wasn't even changed after World War II. I think everyone agreed at that point that Hitler was bad; many had experienced his badness first-hand. But they stood by their principles, because they knew changing it would just make everything much more complicated.

You're not disagreeing with them... They even say

Obviously the motivation for doing so is very dumb, it accomplishes nothing and creates needless work

They are affirming that not only is the motivation dumb and it will create needless work, but that it will be abused and create conflict within the field of taxonomy. i.e. They are saying the consequences will be worse than what the OP is proposing.

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