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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   35439 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 3, 2022

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No, it is definitely possible for a space to avoid the extremists. I have seen ones last years. The keys to success seem like 1) starting out “apolitical” but left-friendly, and 2) having an actual point to the community. Yes, the moment an admin starts getting political it’s in trouble. Yes, if brigaders make a concerted effort to get on staff they can cause damage. No, that’s not guaranteed.

It’s certainly not some magical property of leftists that makes them looting parasites. I don’t know what fantasy land you’re living in where only your ingroup actually builds anything. I’m sure Ayn Rand would be proud.

Yes, the moment an admin starts getting political it’s in trouble.

This point is underemphasized. The left--including the center-left--has by now "no enemies to the left" as a default setting. Once you combine that with "the personal is the political," the spiral to the left is inevitable, if on a variable timetable.

I used to run something more or less equivalent to a hobbyist group with the rules "no politics," "no racism," and "don't be an asshat." I know for a fact that the political leanings of the other leadership was everything from hard left to hard right, but we were able to stick to a firm "get your political discussion kicks elsewhere." I have zero faith that I'd be able to repeat the experience, because of the number of times I've heard "it's not political, it's just being a decent person."

As for slurs, it doesn't have to be a specific word or phrase. I've heard "white dude" be used with every bit of the venom and contempt that a Klansman might use the n-word. Didn't get moderated.

I have seen ones last years.

Such as? Are you very sure they avoided extremists, or could it be that you were blind to them because you don't see them as extreme due to being one of them? Are you entirely sure you're not standing in the middle of Trafalgar Square and wondering why you can't see London?

It’s certainly not some magical property of leftists that makes them looting parasites.

I'd like just one example of right-wingers taking over a community and, say, instituting rules that say you must refer to everyone as their birth sex or be banned, then, please.

There’s one in particular I can think of, yeah. It’s studiously dedicated to an indie game and enforces a reasonably strict no-politics rule.

It’s very international, with a strong Singaporean contingent. It’s also very gay, to a level which would probably offend more sensitive right-wingers. Neither of these things precludes the mods banning anyone who wants to monologue about politics, left or right. The best example I saw was someone determined to post “America will nevertheless be tried for war crimes!!1!” But usually bans are reserved for trolls. So I’d call it affably leftist, not militant.

The biggest crisis faced by this server occurred when a certain YouTuber reviewed the game. This resulted in a tide of meme spammers making edgy Holocaust jokes.

Your request for evidence is complicated by the free-speech absolutists, who as much more likely to stick around a right wing space. And of course the old school sensibility of “there are no women on the Internet” makes such an unverifiable rule unlikely. I’d be willingly to bet that you could find neutral-turned-right spaces in gun or survival culture, or perhaps on alternate history fiction boards.

I'll just work on the assumption you're in the furry inflation vore fetish community, since he hasn't reviewed many other indie games lately and it'd fit for the gay thing https://youtube.com/watch?v=VqasJcCUAA8

What about Caves of Qud?

He'd already said it wasn't that in another thread. The part I'm still wondering about is the Singaporean element.

furry inflation vore fetish community

See I read this and I just thought "wait, Pyrocynical made a game?"

Jfc I can't even tell what that is but I want it to get off my lawn. God damn zoomers.

Noooooooo comment, lol.

I’d be willingly to bet that you could find neutral-turned-right spaces in gun or survival culture, or perhaps on alternate history fiction boards.

Okay, but I don't want you to make a bet, I want you to actually find the examples of right-wing entryism triumphant resulting in purges of the left in these communities.

We can point to plenty examples of the reverse! It is not enough for you to merely posit the existence of a counter.

I recall visiting a Russian chan-slash-web-culture wiki recently and seeing the Russian-Ukrainian war covered almost exclusively from a hard pro-Russian, anti-Ukrainian stance. That's in a space which I recall as rather irreverent to the powers that be.

I'm skeptical that the Russian chans were neutral or left to begin with, but I have no insight into Russian internet culture, so who can say? I was thinking more the western world, though. The relevant chunks.

It's a mistake to view Russian politics through the binary lens of Dems and Reps in the first place. However, the official position of the state is culturally to the right of the West, and that of most dissidents is to the left of the state. Of course, there are also the "50 Putins" types, particularly visible today, who are pissed that Ukraine isn't nuclear ashes/barren wasteland within Russian borders yet.

Crucially, support for the state was supposed to be rare on chans.

I'm willing to concede that pro-Russian voices have taken over the Russian chans and ousted anti-Russian voices. I'm unwilling to concede that is accurately described as right-wing entryists subverting a leftist forum.

That does remind me, what about the Russian gachimuchi community/ies?

What about them? If you're asking whether they were right-entried or not - I'm not involved enough and they're too ironic to say from the outside. I don't recall anything blatant like "femboy fascism" though.

Was the "certain YouTuber" Sseth? I remember there was some drama around Caves of Qud when he released a video about it.

Yup. The Ssethtide. Different game, though; I actually haven't played Qud.

Dude is hilarious.

Ssethtide was SS13, wasn't it?

Yeah, that's one thing, I think there was also some alledged brigading of the CoQ Discord, or at least some sort of freakout there.

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