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Can anybody explain the Polish perspective on the Ukraine war?
I went to Poland and it looked like what Western Europe should look like. The urban areas were clean and seemingly safe. Indeed the people living there are mostly European or Slavic.
My understanding is that most of the tsunami of African or Middle-Eastern immigrants of the 2000s would rather go to Western Europe or Scandinavia for better welfare or economic prospects.
Still, Poland used to get in trouble with the EU for not wanting to take in a certain amount of them.
Moreover, Poland has also faced reprimand from the same union for their policies toward non-heterosexuals.
Why did Poland even join the EU? Did they really need the money so badly at the time?
Now it seems that Poland is going toward ever more alignment with the EU and US.
Are they really so scared of Russia that they would drink the corn syrup and give up on whatever is left of their culture/sovereignty/demographics?
Is anybody of relevance in Poland even attempting to contradict the pro-Western turn?
From what I've gathered from my Polish acquaintances and co-workers* the answer is pretty straight forward, they don't see themselves as "Eastern", they see themselves as "Western" a significant component their national myth is of Poles as the bulwark, standing strong against the tide (Polish spearmen held back the Golden Horde, Polish Hussars broke the siege of Vienna, and so on). More pointedly Poland got royally fucked over by a Russian German alliance in World-War one, and again in World War Two. Accordingly their towards both Russia and Germany today is essentially one of "Never Again". From the Polish perspective joining NATO defangs the German threat while pissing off their ancient rivals/enemies, the Muskovites, as far as they're concerned it's all win. Sure the duplicitous Germans and and effete Belgians can whinge about immigration policy but what are they actually gonna do, Poland is part of the Schengen Zone baby and they've been pulling the DeSantis trick of sending unwanted immigrants to the hometowns of politicians who promote immigration for years now.
As for the Ukraine war in particular, Kiev has long been an ally of Krakow and Moscow has long been a rival/enemy. Pieprzic Rossia, Slava Ukraini.
* Note most of those acquaintances and co-workers are in the Polish military/defense industry which probably colors things a bit.
Thank you for answering the question!
Seems a little bit careless. The Eternal Germ will not let them get away with it.
But now they're submerged in Ukrainian immigrants. It's not the end of it either.
It seems to me that their only saving grace is their unique language, for now.
Once they have the Americans 'helping out' with the Russian threat and the Germans 'advising' and the British 'training' they'll find out that their younger generations only want to speak English.
+if/when NATO finally takes out Russia, I imagine Poland would be in the runner-up for the next 'disturbingly native-looking' country in what remains of Europe then.
If anything, Russia is a good distraction from their little DeSantis tricks, it's not in their best long-term interest to have the Ukraine wedge take out the bear.
Do you believe that a primary goal of the EU/NATO is to fill all European countries with non-White immigrants? Do you actually think the EU/NATO strongly object to the fact that the population of Russia is mostly ethnic Russians, and that the population of Poland is almost entirely ethnic Poles?
What's a primary goal and what's a secondary goal? A primary goal of the EU is, charitably, to keep Europeans in the manner to which they have grown accustomed, i.e. to maintain their welfare states in an age of falling fertility rates and dwindling tax bases. They have decided that the optimal way to do this to usher in an endless number of migrants from Africa and the Middle East, and have repeatedly made statements to that effect. To the extent that any European country - Hungary, say, or Poland - objects that they do not want to take in large African populations, the EU has indicated that it will cajole, threaten and twist arms until it gets what it wants. After all, such objections are an obstacle to the goal of maintaining a particular economic state, and thus an undermining of the EU project at large. Given these facts, is it fair to say that the EU is at odds with the continued existence of European countries as majority-European states, as they want migrants in numbers large enough to affect demographic pyramids?
EU is not taking in an "endless number of migrants from Africa and the Middle East". The total number of migrants to EU in 2020 was 1,9 million, a small trickle compared to the total EU population. Out of this, ca 600 00 are asylum seekers. If EU was actually intent on ushering in an "endless number of migrants", this would be an incredibly weak effort, considering how many Africans and Middle Easterns are actually willing to move; it would also be strange for EU to run a whole agency (and keep giving it more and more funds, and turn a blind eye to its migrant pushbacks) to coordinate ways to keep unauthorized migrants, mainly from these areas, out.
EU countries do, indeed, wish to utilize migration to save the welfare state, but when it comes to first residence permits EU issues for employment/education purposes, far and away the biggest group, already in 2021, were the Ukrainians. That indicates who EU wants to work, currently, and it's not hard to imagine that there's a number of Eurocrats currently seeing the Ukrainian refugee flows to Europe as a major boon, presenting an employable and uncontroversial constituency for further work. EU does, at times, weakly try to get Eastern European countries to take in more refugees, mainly as a form of "burden sharing" to take the load off the Western countries, but as one can see from their demographics, these efforts are not really an example of "cajoling, threatening and twisting arms", since that sort of a thing would presumably actually get results.
EU migration policy can mostly be understood through three mandates: getting a modicum of labor-based migration (often from other, non-EU European countries, though that's a diminishing category) and then trying to balance the quest to maintain some sort of a de jure refugee/asylum system, since that is an important part of EU's self-image/external image as the bulwark of the international system and its underlying human rights treaties, and the quest to de facto ensure there's not too many asylum seekers and refugees, let alone illegal immigrants, since that would be destabilizing. The push/pull created by the conflict of the last two mandates then makes the whole immigration policy rather an unwieldy contraption, not really something that most mainstream EU forces are willing to discuss.
I'd also like to add the huge amounts of money, plus various political concessions, given to Turkey in exchange for keeping the migrants at bay.
Yes, and the general way how many seem to believe that EU's migration policies are basically those few confused months in 2015 (or rather a certain interpretation of those months) essentially representing the entire EU migration policy until then and since then, instead of looking at all the things EU has done, both diplomatically and legislatively, to try to make sure that those months aren't repeated again.
You're leaving out the most culture war relevant part of the story, how this policy came to be. The turkey deal only happened after the crisis.
On one side, you have the blank statists, who thought it would be a good idea (they weren't confused) to import millions of MENA people . On the other, the far right and eastern europeans, who warned that they were unassimilable . As the evidence poured in, and the blank statists started losing elections, they changed course, and the state of affairs you describe is the result. Sadly yet predictably, Pol(and) was right again.
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