This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Did he kill anyone? 22 years is what you get for contract murder or multi billion dollar fraud. What is he actually guilty of? The bullshit that he tried to 'overthrow the government' doesn't fly. Wannabe street thugs don't overthrow governments even though they might occupy buildings.
In this case it was a clear set-up by feds, the guy is likely a patsy or an informer who played his part but was betrayed by the blob. It seems, to me, a clearly political conviction.
Giving him 22 years for seditious conspiracy would make sense were he say, a National Guard colonel whose troops arrested the entire senate and occupied the building for days.
Letting him out seems perfectly just. We know the Feds were up to something there with the snow-job related to Epps and the unbelievable fake pipe-bomb plot that's conveniently been memory holed. Or the footage of security opening doors to let the surprisingly well behaved 'rioters' walk around.
Why? I understand the arguments for downgrading from the death penalty to life in prison here. I don't understand the arguments for downgrading from life in prison to, say, 22 years.
First example
Second example
Neither of those are "contract murder" (well, the second one isn't 100% clear but it doesn't look like one). "Contract murder" (or "contract killing") is working as a hitman - accepting money to kill people you otherwise wouldn't. It's generally considered more depraved than normal murder.
Yeah, I couldn't quickly find all that many contract murder cases, and so generalized out to provide examples.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link