site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 7, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

American midterm election predictions?

Does anyone wish to use this space to register predictions for outcomes in tomorrow's American midterm elections?

Personally, I take a kind of efficient markets approach to this stuff, so I'll defer to the betting consensus. But if you want your time-stamped judgment registered as part of the official Motte record, here's your chance!

Mods - please feel free to remove if you don't think this is a good fit for the space.

The betting markets diverge quite a bit from the polling aggregation / model at FiveThirtyEight, giving greater odds of Republican victories.

Some possible reasons for market divergence:

  • Shy Republican / Eager Democrat effects on pollsters. Perhaps those planning to vote Republican are more likely to hide it or decline the poll, and Dems are excited to have their politics represented in the poll.

  • Polls may be inaccurately weighting different demographic groups.

  • Betters may be overeager to see Republican victories and let that influence the bets they make.

  • Betters are using non-polling signals like early turnout figures to inform their bets.

What else could explain the divergence between the betting markets and the polls?

Betters may be overeager to see Republican victories and let that influence the bets they make.

I can't see how this can be squared with "and smart actors see this opportunity and place bets on the other side to drive the price back towards equilibrium" if true. Someone on the other side might want to jump on their miscalculation.

Although you can definitely argue the markets aren't fully liquid or something.

Betters are using non-polling signals like early turnout figures to inform their bets.

Seems likely. Possible that some of them have studied FiveThirtyEight's model and noticed factors it doesn't capture/underweights. I dunno.

How many smart actors are in political betting, anyway. I think it's mostly wishcasting by feverent partisans. It's best used as a gauge for enthusiasm of the core base. Ceremonially igniting your cash on a bonfire to signal faith in your tribe is worth something (and if you actually win, bonus!)

I bet in antiquity, people would watch the smoke rising from the temples to gauge which Babylonian cult was on the ascendency. It's much the same here.

I think it's mostly wishcasting by feverent partisans.

Uhhh if that's true, then you'd expect it to attract smart actors who want to fleece said partisans.

You're basically suggesting that there's a giant pool of suckers betting thousands of dollars and somehow this hasn't attracted predators seeking easy money.

Like, you, yourself. If you strongly believe it's just partisans, why not throw some money in there betting against the crowd and reap some profits?