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Notes -
Hi guys! Have you heard about the Eunuch Archive?
The Eunuch Archive is a friendly support site for the Eunuch Community. Originally a part of the Body Modification E-Zine (with the tagline "the fetish is reality"), since the late 90's they've been hosting erotic fiction by and for people with a kink for being castrated.
Can't say I read a lot of these stories, but going through the titles there seems to be a some amount of "wife gets back at husband", or "help, I've been sold into sex slavery". One theme that stood out was the idea of castration being normalized in the future. For example the user "Jesus" wrote a story "Orchiectomy: Is It Right for You?", describing the procedure, and praising it's health benefits. The punchline comes at the end (keep in mind the story was written in 2002):
There also many stories that are far more disturbing, or as they put it themselves:
The summary for one states:
Yikes... you can't say they didn't warn you.
Well, I suppose it's better that people get their rocks off on some seedy website. After all it's just fantasy, and the people running the site make it clear they don't condone anyone actually trying to do this sort of stuff.
Hey guys! Have you heard about the WPATH?
WPATH is the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, a non-profit, interdisciplinary professional and educational organization devoted to transgender health. It is often cited in academic literature, and invites the world's top experts in the field to write the standards of care for transgender people.
Among these experts are people like Thomas W. Johnson, Richard Wassersug, and Krister H. Willette, who attended several WPATH conferences, and all have accounts on the Eunuch Archive ("Jesus", "Eunuchunique", and "Kristoff" respectively) that were active for over 20 years. Johnson and Wassersug have even published research based on a survey of EA's users, and the stories posted there.
Well, I suppose I can't criticize what people do off the clock. Ok, so maybe their academic research was actually still on the clock, but isn't the whole point of academia to explore and document all, even the weirdest corners of society? If they can combine their work with their hobby, all I can say is: good for them!
As for their work in WPATH, I'm sure they are proffesional and wouldn't dream of letting their fetish affect their work.
Hey guys! Have you heard about the WPATH's latest Standard of Care?
As mentioned above the SOC is a set of guidelines developed by the WPATH with the goal to "provide clinical guidance for health professionals to assist transgender and gender diverse people with safe and effective pathways to achieve lasting personal comfort with their gendered selves, and to maximize their overall health, psychological well-being, and self-fulfillment".
This latest version has been the subject of some controversy. For example, the previous version contained "suggested minimum ages" for a number of procedures, like:
14+ years old for cross-sex hormones
15+ years old for double mastectomies
16+ years old for breast implants, facial feminisation surgery
17+ years old for metoidioplasty, orchiectomy, vaginoplasty, hysterectomy, fronto-orbital remodelling
18+ years old for phalloplasty.
In the latest version the only one that remains is the limit on phalloplasty. In another controversial decision, they decided that children can move straight to cross-sex hormones – they will no longer be requested to start with a suppression of puberty. Perhaps most controversially, the latest Standards of Care now includes an entire chapter on eunuchs, and proposes a new "eunuch-identity":
Well, I suppose it could be a coincidence. I mean just because they suddenly came up with a eunuch-identity, doesn't mean they got it from the regulars of the fetish webs-...
...
Well, I̵ ̴s̷u̸p̴p̸o̴s̶e̷ t̴̮͒ĥ̷͙a̴̦̒t̶̥́ ̴̞̓I̵̟̍ ̷̢͝c̷͜͠a̶̱͗n̷̫̽'̷͖̇ẗ̸̪.̷̢̫̂̍.̷͔̱̏̈.̴̦̳͐ ̸̡̥̪̄o̸̝̅̋́h̸̛̖̗̰̓͗ ̷̤͔̲͑͗G̵̼͒̎͝o̶̯͇͓̓ḋ̵͈̻͈͛̈́, ṋ̴̞̹͉̊̐̀ͅở̴̱̀̎̂͛!̴̖͓̟̬̊̇̓̾ P̴͕̗͚͙̘̏̿̀l̸̥͚͕̺̤̺̙͇̉̉͆̈́͗̃͘̚ë̸̟̘̟́̑̾a̸͈̗̦̟̘̱͓͊̇͋ș̷̱͚͔̤̀̇́͑͜e̶̘̿́͂̋ ̶̬̈́̒m̷͇̓͗͐̔̿̿̚͝ắ̶̲̫͖̪̺́̈͒̂́͜͠k̸͍͔̙̣̰̖̻̩͆e̴̱̤̤͎̟̐̀ ̴̹̪͇͈͚̉̾̈̚i̷̡̖̹͇̤̝͛̽̎̍t̴̻̓̾͠ ̵̭̿ş̶̧͔͖̹̣̃̂̈́͐̚̕ṱ̴̡̜̀͋̉̃̉̃͜o̶̬̹̒͌p̷͍͖̼͔̓̌͜͝!̷̛͉̎́͐̕͘̚
Can we not? Discuss the culture war not wage it is our raison d'etre. Your whole spiel would be much more fitting without the feigned Hey guys rhetorical device. State your point clearly. This might be interesting to discuss but with the partisan trappings splashed all over it why bother?
Perhaps address what they were writing?
Or if it's not for you, maybe move on?
What are you adding here, except for style policing?
Style policing is a valuable part of building a discussion community like this one. That was the entire point of my comment! We have very specific rules and norms around tone and style, entirely separate from the content.
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Mentioning this at all is very partisan. I liked how it was styled. What did he get wrong
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But at least he did get you to acknowledge the post, if not to address the evidence in any way. That's better than the usual outcome.
Straw that broke the camels back. Nothing especially bad about this post compared to a number of other norm eroding posts I am seeing.
I guess we're on to the "ignore except to subtweet about the stench of evil right wing bare links posts getting worse" step already.
It's sad how predictable it is. Could you actually address his post, as a favor to me?
Nope. Nothing you are saying in anyway makes me think that is a good idea. Perhaps reconsider your approach?
No need to change my approach: you've already explained more than enough about your reaction to the evidence. All that's left is waiting for the "and it's good!" step in a few months.
It's amazing that the same tactics work for you over and over again, but why change what works.
I've explained exactly nothing about my reaction to the evidence. The only thing I have talked about is my critique of how the point was made. You are familiar with the Motte yes? This is very much our bread and butter. Nearly any point can be made, but we have rules and a culture around HOW the point should be made.
It should be plain, it should be written as is people you disagree with are reading and you WANT them to read. It should avoid Boo Outgrouping and should optimize for light and not heat etc. etc.
Could you help him rewrite his post so that people with a fetish for castrating children felt more included in the conversation? That would be a very helpful and productive alternative to complaining about his tone, and double as active engagement with the evidence.
You two could even do an adversarial collaboration on it!
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Both the ending, and the rhetorical flourishes were meant to be a bit of harmless fun. For whatever it's worth, this was not aimed at your tribe, or even trans people, if anything I was poking fun at habitual conspiracy-deniers.
To be clear, I am not even sure about what your accusation is supposed to be. That's the point of the state clearly rule. I assume you're saying that these people are driving trans changes because they have an eunuch fetish, but it might be because you think they are mentally ill or because you think they are evil. I certainly didn't get you were poking fun at conspiracy deniers.
I'm not clear on what your specific point actually is. Which is why stating it outright somewhere would be helpful, even if you have to keep the rhetorical flourishes. Just a suggestion.
You think my post would have been better if I called them evil or mentally ill? I didn't say any of that because I don't know, and it doesn't matter. The factual part "these people are driving trans changes because they have an eunuch fetish" is enough to stand, and be discussed on it's own.
A common trope in dismissing conspiracy theories is calling everything a coincidence, and dismissing any personal connections as playing "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon". The point of the other rhetorical flourish - "well, I suppose" - was exactly the point of making fun of that, right up until you see the SOC document literally citing the fetish forum.
Duly noted, but it sounds like you got exactly what I was saying, it's just that you were expecting there's more to it.
I think your post would have been better if I was sure what your point was. What specifically was the conspiracy you are making fun of the deniers denying. Who denied it and when? What is the light that would come from the discussion?
Yes I got that part. Sadly, I couldn't know ahead of time what you'll be able to catch, and what you'd find confusing.
Any one that's plausible but lacking smoking-gun evidence. The one that's the most analogous is woke entryism into institutions with cultural influence, but any one will do - from Epstein running a child-prostituion Ponzi Scheme (before the evidence was released), Epstein not killing himself, to the COVID lab leak or Big Pharma collaborating to discredit ivermectin.
What would be accomplished by listing all the times and places a specific conspiracy theory was denied?
That to move past shady thinking, I think we need to stop dismissing any hypothesis just because it's a conspiracy theory.
That we might need to increase scrutiny on our institutions, because they seem the be very vulnerable to manipulation by malicious actors.
Well if you want us to talk about whether it is a conspiracy or not (as opposed to just making fun of people who think it is) then that would be helpful, no? If your post was just to make fun of those people, then what is it's value here?
If your point is
Then why not just say that specifically? Those are good points and worth discussing. But you didn't actually mention those things in your original post. Are the eunuchs malicious actors? Are they manipulating the situation? If those are your factual claims then make your point around that. But your post doesn't say that. It kind of gives a wink wink nudge nudge in that direction. Which we should avoid in my opinion here, at least.
Is your position that these people are malicious actors? If so just say so. If not, then say that instead.
No? I don't see how citing every time someone denied these conspiracies would bring anything to the discussion.
The story in itself is pretty out there. I wanted to see what people think of it, before moving on to any big-picture ultimate conclusions I might have about it.
Malicious in the sense that they're driven by their fetish rather than finding the best standards of care, yes.
Ok, and from my side: if something in what I wrote is unclear, can you just ask what I meant, so I can clarify it, instead of complaining about the original post 9 comment levels deep?
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