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Notes -
https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/1909263788295041257
https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1909411006423392583
So the two biggest economies are now locked in a full-scale trade war... I suspect this will be more severe than previous skirmishing. In the past China imposed restrictions on imports of Australian wine, lobster and coal due to us calling for an inquiry into COVID. The Australian government basically ignored this without retaliating and eventually (with a change of govt over here to the less anti-Chinese Labour party) the restrictions were dropped. And they didn't touch iron ore, our biggest and most important export.
But nobody really cares about Australia, there's no loss of face in restoring trade relations like there would be with being seen to submit to Trump. You can show magnanimity to a weaker country but you probably can't show weakness to a peer power. Plus the US-China tariffs seem to be much more comprehensive, there's no shielded goods listed. I highly doubt that Xi will back down here like Trump seems to be asking. Giving a one day ultimatum is quite rude.
It seems that Trump's strategy is to shake down the US's weaker trading partners (the 'other countries which have requested meetings') and try to smash the stronger powers like China and possibly the EU. The EU might even fall into the 'weaker' category if Trump can link security to the trade relationship, Vance and co wanted to send Europe the bill for bombing Yemen since it was mostly European trade flowing through the Red Sea. The US has opportunities for leverage in terms of energy flows now that Russia is persona non grata and with defence via NATO. On the other hand, the EU is run by Trump-haters and they're hardened experts in economically wrecking their own countries, so they may show some backbone.
Anyway, who has more leverage between the US and China?
China's exports to the US ($500 billion) are mostly manufactured goods, electronics and machinery. These are ironically the things you'd need to industrialize the US, though a lot is also consumer goods. China dominates certain industries like port equipment as seen here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/11jsyyf/well_thats_unfortunate/
https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports/united-states
The US's exports to China ($144 billion) are a mix of agriculture/energy and electronics (semiconductors are included in this category), aircraft, machinery.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/exports/china
Personally I favour a supply-focused view of trade conflicts. If you're losing out on $500 billion worth of goods due to high tariffs (an additional 50% on top of the 34% and the previous tariffs really add up!) then that's worse than 34% or 84% if Xi matches on a mere $144 billion. Many of those goods will be prerequisites for US production. A much smaller proportion of Chinese imports will be prerequisites and soybeans/gas can be bought from elsewhere. Plus the Chinese approach to industrial policy seems much more sophisticated, they target key sectors to build up economies of scale. They foster development in high-tech industries with huge state backing. They do plenty on the supply side, tariffs only affect prices and demand. I think China is not too concerned about losing US imports, they want to replace them with indigenous suppliers on the high-end anyway and have been working hard to do this for years and years, that's Made in China 2025. There is no equivalent comprehensive program to reshore production in the US.
And if China loses some of their exports, at least they retain production capacity. Those mobile phones and plastic toys could go to Chinese kids instead.
I've seen others online favouring a demand-focused view, so there is room for difference on this (elasticity matters a lot).
I think China will come out ahead here unless Trump manages some crazy 4D chess bullying other nations into tariffing China too. China is the central hub of the world economy in terms of trade flows, their economy is larger in real terms and their political system seems to be more stable, less erratic.
Edit: https://x.com/typesfast/status/1909362292367802840
This seems even crazier if true, it's like Trump is deliberately trying to crash the US economy with these hasty, no-warning orders and fines. See the thread for details. This is how you don't do industrial policy.
RIP republicans in 2026. Trump truly doesn’t care how far prices rise for basically everything. But if there’s one thing voters don’t forgive, it’s fucking up the economy.
I wonder if this is what it will take for the China bubble to finally burst? They’re so insanely drowning in debt and their economy seems to be extremely shaky in its fundamentals. Yet there’s a bad record on people saying “China is DOOMED” so I hesitate to say this will be the nail in the coffin
What do you mean by shaky in fundamentals?
They have a huge amount of industry and infrastructure that pumps out much of the world's goods. Putting finance to one side, isn't that a sound basis for an economy?
China has high corporate debt, that much is known. But debt is just paper. As long as enterprises are productive and efficient, debt doesn't matter. Regardless of what happens in the realm of paper the real productive wealth remains. All those phones, cars, ships will still be produced in increasingly automated factories. All that housing stock is still there. I remember hearing so much about Evergrande collapsing but there don't seem to be many material consequences from that. On the flipside, a home ownership rate of 96% is pretty good in my view, something is going very right there.
And they have plenty of human capital, the cohorts that will be relevant for the next 20 years have already been born, shrinking birthrates will take decades to really cause any major effect.
I think our media has emphasized China's flaws (debt, pollution, totalitarian political system) excessively and refused to cover their successes (logistics, cost-efficient industrial output, innovation) and so people fall into a state of confusion when Deepseek or Tiktok come out, when BYD starts outhustling Tesla or when the Chinese flew their next-gen fighter IRL, as opposed to in CGI like NGAD.
NGAD prototypes flew years before China's next-gen fighter broke cover. IIRC the US had one flying in 2020. We just didn't advertise.
These prototypes look nothing like the 3D models you have now, however.
I have never seen pictures of those prototypes, not have I seen any 3D models of NGAD.
I've seen promotional or imaginary images, none of which, except probably the two 2D teaser posters that came out after Boeing was announced as the NGAD winner, did not necessarily (to my knowledge) had any visual similarity with "real" aircraft. I still don't think we know much about how NGAD will look.
If you have images of the prototypes or 3D models of NGAD I would be extremely interested to see them, provided I can do so without violating US espionage laws ;)
Do you imply that F-47 is not “NGAD”? The one from 2020 presumably was like that Boeing art.
No. Where's the 3D model?
I don't think literal concept art like this should be taken to necessarily mean anything. (At least three NGAD prototypes flew, so maybe it was real, or maybe it was just something an artist thought would look cool in a press release.)
Do you mean that this “artist's rendering” of F-47 is 2D? Well, I admit this possibility didn't occur to me, but now that I look closer…
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