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Culture War Roundup for the week of April 7, 2025

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Tyler Cowen has a Conversation with Jennifer Pahika on Reforming Government

I will pull one little segment.

COWEN: If someone says, when it comes to regulatory reform, accountability is not the solution, it’s the problem, do you agree?

PAHLKA: Accountability is not the solution, it’s the problem?

COWEN: You put in accountability, everything has to be measured, everything has to have a process. It’s judicial review. Should we have less accountability in government?

PAHLKA: In a certain sense, I would agree with that. I don’t think in an absolute sense. I think the way that we structure accountability is very flawed. I think we are holding public servants essentially accountable to metrics that are not proxies for real outcomes that people care about. When you have a very high focus on accountability that is really about fidelity to procedure and process instead of to the actual outcome, that’s not accountability.

COWEN: Outcomes are heterogeneous, they’re tricky, they’re long term. When you ask people to measure, you end up with a lot more emphasis on process than you want. So, maybe accountability is the problem. To say accountability for outcomes — that’s just going to morph into accountability for process. That’s what I observe, even in private companies. Big, successful, profitable private companies that we’re all familiar with — they have the same problem, as I’m sure you know.

PAHLKA: That they’re held accountable to the —

COWEN: There’s far too much process, bureaucracy, delays. They’re slow. Look at construction productivity in the United States. It’s terrible. It’s declined.

PAHLKA: Yes, I would agree with that.

COWEN: And that’s the private sector.

PAHLKA: Yes. I think one of the issues though is that there is more accountability to process in government than in the private sector, I believe.

COWEN: More in government.

PAHLKA: More in government.

COWEN: Yes, sure.

PAHLKA: Because in the private sector, if you don’t get the outcomes, you are unlikely to succeed financially.

COWEN: There’s a profit — clear goal. In government, it’s not the same kind of outcome. It collapses more into process.

PAHLKA: Yes, it collapses more into process, absolutely. I think also you have — what is it — Goodhart’s Law that says once a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be useful, and you see that everywhere in government. I think that’s part of what I mean about the new public management and the reinventing government in the ’90s was highly reliant on “Let’s set a goal and follow that goal.”

There can be real value in that. I’m not discrediting it entirely, but you do have that erosion of the value of those targets as people try to meet the target without actually meeting the outcome that was intended. I think that a more digital transformation approach that is instead able to change over time more quickly and say, “Wait, this target is no longer helping us get where we wanted to go. We’ve got to iterate on that. Let’s change it.” That can really, I think, get us out of that industrial era of thinking.

I want to pull on some threads in the vein of my previous comments on military research, development, and procurement. They talked about this some, but were also talking more broadly. I think the problem to be solved is perhaps most clearly cognizable in this domain. Reordering the discussion a bit, we'll start from the outcomes, the things that we're trying to achieve:

COWEN: Outcomes are heterogeneous, they’re tricky, they’re long term.

As I put it:

we have a situation where your military is very very rarely 'tested' (in fact, ideally it is very rare). You very rarely get actual feedback. When you do, you do not have access to the counterfactual of what would have happened if you had invested differently.

Look at the lead time for something like a modern fighter jet. What's the chance that the guy who originally greenlit the program is still around to be 'accountable' if/when it's actually used in a hot conflict, such that its performance can be assessed against the competition? Do you handicap that assessment at all? He made his decision a decade ago, seeing a certain set of problems that they were trying to solve. A decade or two later, your adversaries have also been developing their own systems. Should he be punished in some way for failing to completely predict how the operating environment would change over decades? Suppose he made the decision in Year X, and it came into service in Year X+10. It hypothetically would have performed perfectly well for a decade or two, but you just never had a hot war and never saw it. By the time Year X+25 rolls around and you do get into a hot war, it's now hot garbage in comparison to what else is out there? Is he blameworthy in some way? Should he be held 'accountable' in some way? There's a good chance he's now retired or even dead, so, uh, how are you going to do that?

Obviously, there is a spectrum here, but I would argue that a modern fighter jet is more toward the middle of the spectrum than at the far end. Yes, there are plenty of faster-turnaround things, but there are also lots of long lead time things. Even just think about the components/subsystems of the fighter jet. By the time a decision is made to greenlight the larger project, most of these have to be relatively mature. The gov't and company involved can probably take some risk on some of these, but they can't do too many. They want a fair amount of subsystems that they are confident can be integrated into the design and refined within their overall project schedule. That means that all of that investment had to be done even earlier.

Back to that guy who makes the decision. Who is that? Probably a general or a political appointee. Possibly a group of gov't stakeholders. How does he decide what to buy? Remember, he's trying to predict the future, and he doesn't actually know what his adversaries are going to do in the meantime. He has no direct outcomes by which to do this. He doesn't yet have some futarchy market to somehow predict the future. He basically just has educating himself on what's out there, what's possible, what's at various stages of maturity, and where various people think stuff might be going. As I put it in the doubly-linked comment:

There will be a plethora of "experts" who have their own opinions. Some top military folks in the early 1900s will think that airplanes are just toys, while others will tell you that they can change the nature of warfare; how do you know who to believe and where to put your money?

And so, I think Tyler would claim, this fundamentally drives these decisions to be focused on process rather than outcome. The outcome isn't accessible and likely isn't going to be. Instead, people basically just implement a process to ensure that the decisionmaker(s) are talking to the right stakeholders, getting a wide variety of input, not just shoveling contracts to their buddies, etc. Sure, these decisionmakers still have some leeway to put their mark on the whole thing, but what's the plan for adding more 'accountability' to them that isn't just, "Whelp, let's make sure they go through enough process that they don't have the obvious failure modes, and then sort of hope that their personal mark on the process is generally good, because we've built up some trust in the guy(s) over some years"?

Now, think like a company or research org that is considering investing in lower maturity subsystems. It's a hellova risk to do that with such an incredibly long lead time and, frankly, a pretty low chance of having your product selected. You're going to care a lot about what that process looks like, who the relevant stakeholders/decisionmakers are, and what their proclivities are. If you're pretty confident that the guy(s) in charge mostly don't give a shit about airplanes, you're even more unlikely to invest a bunch of money in developing them or their components. Will some crazy company spent thirty years to develop a fully-formed system, getting no contracts anywhere along the way, just hoping that once the generals see it complete and in action (ish, because again, there's not a hot war and you can't really demonstrate the meaningfulness of having a thousand airplanes with your one prototype), they'll finally be 'forced' to acknowledge how effective it's going to be, finally unable to brush it off, and finally actually buy it for bazillions of dollars? I guess, maybe, sometimes. But probably not very often. Thus, I think it's pretty unlikely that the gov't can just completely wash its hands of any involvement in the research/development pipeline and just say, "Companies will always bring us fully-formed products, and we'll decide to buy the best ones." Pahlka touches on a need for the gov't to "insource" at least some parts of things:

There are rumors that DOGE is actually pro-insourcing more tech talent in government. I know you’re not hearing about that now. It may just be a rumor, and it may not be true, so don’t quote me on this. I certainly think that folks in Musk’s world came in and looked at government, and said, “How do you even operate with so little technical competence in-house? That’s crazy.” And it is crazy. They’re right about that.

We’ll either end up, I think, even further privatizing not just the software, but the whole operations as the software and the operations are increasingly melded — again, this is not new — or we’ll be forced finally to gain the internal competence that we have always needed and start to do this a little bit better.

Again, I think she's talking more broadly, but that bit about software and operations being very melded is quite poignant when thinking about military applications.

Getting back to the problem of not knowing what's going to be effective in the future, the traditional solution is to just fund pretty broadly, through multiple mechanisms. Not sure about airplanes? Have one guy/group who seem to like airplanes go ahead and fund a variety of airplane-related stuff. Have some other guy who doesn't like airplanes fund some other stuff. There's obviously a bunch of risky capital allocation questions here, and decisions ultimately have to be made. Those are tough decisions, but how do you add 'accountability' to them? I don't know. I think the easy/lazy way is basically a form of just looking at your 'guys' (your airplane guy, your submarine guy, etc.) and ask, "What have you done for me lately?" The obvious concern is that that makes all your guys focus their portfolios much more heavily toward shorter timelines. But part of the point of the government being 'eternal' is that it should be able to be thinking on longer time horizons, because that may end up being more valuable than just short time horizon things that can be more tightly linked to 'outcomes' or 'accountability'.

I started off being a bit taken aback by the idea Tyler proposed that we should almost just abandon accountability. I've generally been somewhat pro-accountability, and I know folks here have talked about it a lot. But upon reflection, with my pre-existing but not previously-connected thoughts on military procurement, it makes a bit more sense to me that there is a real tension here with no real easy solutions.

This seems like a solved and understood problem. And Cowen himself is aware of the solution and has had interviews with the people that proposed it.

The solution is skin in the game. The person making the decisions needs to be personally impacted by outcomes.

That impact doesn't have to always be punishment, as @faul_sname points out below.

There is probably some low hanging fruit for accountability. Military projects should be tied to specific generals that care about a good legacy. And possibly a politician as well. Let those names become a curse or a word that means reliability to the grunts.

School boards should require that they have kids at the school. And possibly they should only be elected by those who have kids in school. It's possible that mixing in traditional politician accountability systems has made these positions worse. They should maybe be anonymous, or at least part of the board should be.

We require that politicians live in the areas or districts they represent. That is a decent start. Economic tie ins or closer representational tie ins should also exist. Lords of an area used to share their name with the area.

It mostly just feels that accountability is an afterthought. Something added in as a shitty ineffective process, because no one really cares about the hard work of real accountability systems. This feels backwards. The power shouldn't be allowed to exist in the first place without accountability. The Constitution was written partly as a way to say "this is how we won't make the same screwups as the last government".

Let the people in power figure out their own accountability systems, or just don't let them have power.

Seems like it's time for @faceh to tap his sign again. It must be getting worn down by now, maybe we can buy him a new one.

No idea what his sign is.

I have less idea than I did before. Shouldn't a metaphorical sign, be, idk, twelve words max?

The solution is skin in the game. The person making the decisions needs to be personally impacted by outcomes.