site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 14, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

"Uncontroversial" my ass

This adds nothing. Make an actual point, don't just sputter angrily.

He's trying to "build consensus" by claiming that a position is uncontroversial when it is very clearly not

Comments like this but you're giving him a pass because he's on your side.

You realize literally in the last 24 hours I've been accused of giving passes to "my side" by both leftists and rightists?

Do tell me, what is "my side"?

People are allowed to make arguments you dislike, even poor arguments.

My understanding is that the mod team has a lot of overlap with folks from rDrama. The Motte's underlying code is a fork of rDrama's.

Which "side" the mod team is on is whatever side that rDrama is on, which is less about left or right and more about a cultural aesthetic. Gay/Trans/Furry PC-Gamer Master-Race rise up. A metastasization of whatever was going on with Hot Topic in the late 00s.

A key feature of this culture is antipathy towards "normies" and anyone else who isn’t in on the joke. Both the extant left and right have factions within them that are at war with the "default" culturally christian, 2.5 kids and a dog view of middle America and it is with those factions that the culture of rDrama (and by extension theMotte) sides. The side that thinks that TracingWoodgrains trolling LibsOfTikTok was just chef's kiss is the side that the moderators of theMotte are on.

My understanding is that the mod team has a lot of overlap with folks from rDrama. The Motte's underlying code is a fork of rDrama's.

How does one follow from the other? How do people come up with these ideas about the mods?

They are not intended to follow from eachother, they are two independent statements of fact intended to corroborate the claim made in the subsequent paragraph.

The one about mod overlap with /r/drama seems to be comoelrely unsubstantiated, so not really a statement of fact, and the one about the codebase does not corroborate anything that you've written.

ZorbaTHut and TracingWoodgrains were(are?) both long time dramanauts and I am reasonably confident that there are at least two others. That's a minimum of two, possibly as many as four or more, out of a population of ten admins. Greater than 20% is a "significant percentage" if you ask me.

CCing @SteveAgain

More comments