This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's true, accusations of LARPing always discount the fact that literally all revolutions and social movements were LARPs originally.
However, efficient politics requires efficient tactics. And there are many criticisms one can make of the Benedict option as ineffective to achieve one's goals. "It's a LARP" is the weakest argument, but it is not the only argument.
I think "you won't be allowed to exit" is much stronger. People like to employ striking examples like Waco or Ruby Ridge but in truth even milder examples are legion.
Consider the recent Men In Sheds shenanigans. As long as you're not allowed to exclude people out of your organizations in practice, you don't have freedom of association, so you don't have access to the Benedict option. You can't be an ineffectual and inoffensive separatist if the people who rule you want to force you to participate in their society.
Far from me to discourage people from trying to build ground game and organic institutions. I think that's a worthwhile effort and a necessary component of any political or social movement, but that alone is ineffectual on its own. Top down elite power is the much more radical requirement.
Can you summarize the Men in Sheds thing?
Not OP but I dug up a single article on MSN - seems like an initiative in the UK designed for men and then in this one local community (chapter?) they decided to admit women. The article is very short on detail about who pushed it through, how much pushback there was, etc. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/we-put-the-pressure-on-to-join-men-in-sheds/ar-AA1Dmt17?ocid=BingNewsVerp
More options
Context Copy link
There was a social program for seniors in the UK to get guys together and give them some free tools and a workshop. Something about combatting male loneliness, IIRC. It was originally conceived of as a male only space, so the wives of some of the attending chaps couldn't stand the thought that something might bot belong to them, and they nagged their husbands until they were allowed in.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The Amish and similar groups exist and are real, and they are arguably more radical than what the Benedict Option calls for. They don't have elite power, either, although they do have elite allies (and I do agree that you should get elite allies if you can).
The Amish are grandfathered in and you could not create a similarly isolated group from scratch. They don't even pay Social Security taxes--just try doing that with a new group.
The Amish are an interesting example to bring up because they were specifically targeted in the previous administration and organized politically to vote as a block and punish the incumbent inasmuch as they could.
Like others say, much like native tribes they are grandfathered in, but they too still require elite power to sustain that existence. You can't just go innawoods, you need to work the system to let you.
More options
Context Copy link
You can join the existing Amish. Pretty easily actually, if you are earnest about it, you can head to a Mennonite-adjacent community, buy a farm, and you'll be accepted within a few years or so in most cases. I suspect this is more common among the Trad community than its detractors think, but that such folk naturally are never heard from again in public.
I don’t think so? They’re all related to each other and AFAIK regard ‘the English’ with suspicion. Or is that a myth?
You're correct, but so am I.
You can, but effectively no one does.
There are levels to this. There are Mennonite churches that welcome outsiders for worship. If you join one, buy a farm, and earnestly pursue integration for years I'm saying they'll probably accept you. Going deeper into even more traditional communities will require years more of credibility, which is why I'd suggest starting with the "lighter" communities within the plain folk and working your way deeper: it's easier to imagine a tech bro becoming a Mennonite and it's easy to imagine a Mennonite joining an Amish community.
Don't get me wrong this is a ten to fifteen year family project.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link